Students Rioting in London.

[alferret]

Originally Posted by danielf

I don't think that puts us at a competitive advantage economically when manufacturing is in decline.

I work in manufacturing and fully understand how our economy is going in this sector.
But does that still mean that we can throw money at higher education? No, we need to draw a line, and IMO that is what's being done. Love it or hate it, it was passed by about 20 votes.
We cant be a country of graduates, for gods sake man who'll empty our bins.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by vanman

wonder if that is the plan

No. This is about the Tory pledge to cut immigration numbers. The only way they can do this realistically is to cut student visas. Early plans suggested banning pretty much all foreign (non-eu) students, but plans have now been downsized to non-degree level students.

[vanman]

Originally Posted by danielf

No. This is about the Tory pledge to cut immigration numbers. The only way they can do this realistically is to cut student visas. Early plans suggested banning pretty much all foreign (non-eu) students, but plans have now been downsized to non-degree level students.

or putting up the price so most of them can't aford it.
as they won't be entitled for loans

[danielf]

Originally Posted by alferret

I work in manufacturing and fully understand how our economy is going in this sector.
But does that still mean that we can throw money at higher education?
No, we need to draw a line, and IMO that is what's being done. Love it or hate it, it was passed by about 20 votes.

As it stands. we are the only country that stopped 'throwing' money at HE. The future will tell whether that's wise or not.

We cant be a country of graduates, for gods sake man who'll empty our bins.

No, and I never suggested that. I do think however that education will be key to the UK maintaining a competitive advantage. This move does very little towards that.

---------- Post added at 22:29 ---------- Previous post was at 22:24 ----------

Originally Posted by vanman

or putting up the price so most of them can't aford it as they won't be entitled for loans

Non-EU students are already paying considerably higher tuition fees. They subsidise EU students. The increase in tuition fees will have very little impact on the number of non-EU students coming to UK Universities. EU students would be mad to come here and pay four times their home fees.

[vanman]

Originally Posted by danielf

EU students would be mad to come here and pay four times their home fees.

that was my point.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

If Scotland, Wales and Ireland are part of UNITED KINGDOM, then students should have the same education and if it is FREE, then it should be across the board, what happen to equal rights. whats fair for one, is fair for all.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by alferret

I work in manufacturing and fully understand how our economy is going in this sector.
But does that still mean that we can throw money at higher education? No, we need to draw a line, and IMO that is what's being done. Love it or hate it, it was passed by about 20 votes.
We cant be a country of graduates, for gods sake man who'll empty our bins.

looks like there will be a whole generation qualified for those jobs .

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

If Scotland, Wales and Ireland are part of UNITED KINGDOM, then students should have the same education and if it is FREE, then it should be across the board, what happen to equal rights. whats fair for one, is fair for all.

Devolution.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

If Scotland, Wales and Ireland are part of UNITED KINGDOM, then students should have the same education and if it is FREE, then it should be across the board, what happen to equal rights. whats fair for one, is fair for all.

there's nothing united about this Kingdom any-more

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

looks like there will be a whole generation qualified for those jobs .

Oh dear. We may actually have British people doing vocational training for occupations like plumbing, decorating, becoming electricians and other skilled tradesman instead of doing random humanities degrees and having to import tradesman from Eastern Europe.

What saddens me is that degrees are becoming a commodity being the only value placed on them.An indication of finance rather than an acquisition of knowledge.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Oh dear. We may actually have British people doing vocational training for occupations like plumbing, decorating, becoming electricians and other skilled tradesman instead of doing random humanities degrees and having to import tradesman from Eastern Europe.

While I agree vocational training is needed, the infrastructure for implementing it does not exist, as far as I can see?

I think we need to drastically improve the interface between industry & education to the benefit of this country - so I agree that running Universities on a financial basis that relies on overseas students is farcical. (Please note that isn't intended to exclude overseas students, just that the emphasis needs changing)

In my opinion we need to involve employers much more in the education process - and if an Humanities degree is useless in that scenario, then so be it ...

The problem is that employers want the benefit of the skills, but don't want to contribute to paying for the courses (mostly).

[punky]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The problem is that employers want the benefit of the skills, but don't want to contribute to paying for the courses (mostly).

The trouble is what employer wants wants to fork out thousands on someone who could leave straight away for someone else? And I dare forcing someone to work within a company for a set period of time (like they do in the military) breaks some kind of human rights legistlation.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by gazfan

In my opinion we need to involve employers much more in the education process - and if an Humanities degree is useless in that scenario, then so be it ...

I don't see too much call for such a degree in the current shortage occupation list.