Here comes the tax rises

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Again, they should have planned for their financial future better and not expected that the state would be there to support them

Why ?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Paul

Why ?

Why shouldn’t they?

If you want to have a decent standard of living in your retirement then plan for it. (The you is not personal btw)


The tax/ni etc payments made during your working life are not contributions towards your pension at the point of your retirement. They’re paying the pensions of people who receive them at the point in time the deduction is made from your pay

Originally Posted by Pierre

Mine does….. thanks.

Sure, Jan…

It can’t cover A&E or Intensive Care, as Private Hospitals don’t have those facilities - it may pay out a day rate if you use a NHS bed/room, but it’s still using NHS facilities. Also, no Private Health covers chronic conditions.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Why shouldn’t they?

If you want to have a decent standard of living in your retirement then plan for it. (The you is not personal btw)


The tax/ni etc payments made during your working life are not contributions towards your pension at the point of your retirement. They’re paying the pensions of people who receive them at the point in time the deduction is made from your pay

None of that answered the question.

and not expected that the state would be there to support them

Again, why ?

The "state" as you call it states (!) they will be there to support them, in the form of a "state" pension.

Once again you blindly assume that everyone everywhere could afford a private pension, the real world isnt (and wasnt) like that.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Why shouldn’t they?

If you want to have a decent standard of living in your retirement then plan for it. (The you is not personal btw)

The tax/ni etc payments made during your working life are not contributions towards your pension at the point of your retirement. They’re paying the pensions of people who receive them at the point in time the deduction is made from your pay

While I accept that’s true - do you think the average person thinks that or thinks there’s an “I’ve paid in all my days” side pot?

Successive Governments - of both colours - likening the macroeconomics of the state to a household budget will not have helped in this regard either. Both my parents got hit by state pension age increases, and while they didn’t rely on getting it on time since they retired early with a lump sum, it’s very easy to see how working class people in low paid jobs reasonably expect a pension and budget for it.

I’m at the front of the queue to argue for transparency around this, and costs of both health and social care. We’d very quickly see the erosion of opposition to wealth taxes and acceptance of tax avoidance as fair game if the average person saw it in plain sight.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Paul

None of that answered the question.



Again, why ?

The "state" as you call it states (!) they will be there to support them, in the form of a "state" pension.

Once again you blindly assume that everyone everywhere could afford a private pension, the real world isnt (and wasnt) like that.

I’d wager more people historically could afford it than present day.

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:24 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

While I accept that’s true - do you think the average person thinks that or thinks there’s an “I’ve paid in all my days” side pot?

Successive Governments - of both colours - likening the macroeconomics of the state to a household budget will not have helped in this regard either. Both my parents got hit by state pension age increases, and while they didn’t rely on getting it on time since they retired early with a lump sum, it’s very easy to see how working class people in low paid jobs reasonably expect a pension and budget for it.

I’m at the front of the queue to argue for transparency around this, and costs of both health and social care. We’d very quickly see the erosion of opposition to wealth taxes and acceptance of tax avoidance as fair game if the average person saw it in plain sight.

Sorry but if the average person doesn’t think far enough ahead about their financial security and just blindly assumes they’ll be ok, then whose fault is that ?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

They couldn’t afford it ? Is one extracting the urine?

No. Why would all workers, and non-workers from the 70’s onwards be guaranteed to be able to afford a private pension?

Do tell.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I’d wager more people historically could afford it than present day.

Sorry but if the average person doesn’t think far enough ahead about their financial security and just blindly assumes they’ll be ok, then whose fault is that ?

The average person doesn’t have surface to air missile systems in their garden would they too be deficient if the Russians, or anyone else, landed a cruise missile on their home?

Of course not. It’s not unreasonable to expect the state to level with people suitably far in advance of changes to pensions. It suits them to not because it’d drive up wages as everyone simultaneously “takes responsibility”.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

when it comes to it, you will need the NHS.

Why, by your logic, should the younger generation pay for it? You said it..in regards to pensions………..

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Are you really that dependent on £200. If so you need to claim pension credit, then you'll get the fuel allowance aswell.

Maybe sell the boat?

You’re obviously not….check your privilege.

---------- Post added at 21:39 ---------- Previous post was at 21:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

The payments were introduced by Labour,since then the Tories have come in with the triple lock which massively dwarfs the fuel payment. They have also financially crippled us.

Get rid of the triple lock and you can have the fuel payment if you want, it would save the country masses more. But just like everyone else, you can't have everything. There is a safety net, pension credit.

You just hate pensioners don’t you? which is strange, because you will be one

---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:39 ----------

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Again, they should have planned for their financial future better and not expected that the state would be there to support them

That homeless man, ex soldier that was screwed over, well…………he should have planned for his financial future better.

Replace ex soldier with single mother, chronically Ill, minimum wage, mentally Ill…the whole thing.

Is your Nick name “portaloo”? Complete the joke yourself.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

No. Why would all workers, and non-workers from the 70’s onwards be guaranteed to be able to afford a private pension?

Do tell.

The average wage in 1977 for manual worker per week was £70
Adjusting for inflation today would equate to approx £399

The average weekly wage now is £ 453.30

Now compare house valuations/prices vs salary etc

You generally got a lot more for your money in the 70s and if people were stupid enough to spunk it up a wall rather than plan for their future. Well,tough ?

Furthermore (and with zero evidence whatsoever) I’m betting that those twisting on about this are the same people who say that all youngsters need to do to buy a house is to cut down on Starbucks/avacado on toast/Netflix etc

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Sure, Jan…

It can’t cover A&E or Intensive Care, as Private Hospitals don’t have those facilities - it may pay out a day rate if you use a NHS bed/room, but it’s still using NHS facilities. Also, no Private Health covers chronic conditions.

You seem to forget in my post that being contrary, I was advocating for the NHS, and was opposing Mr K’s assertion to not pay for pensions because the elderly don’t deserve it.

But you’re so excited to jump on me, I’m glad I can give you that little thrill and excitement. I’m paying back to our senior community.

[jfman]

So the average worker…. Made less in the 1970s?

House prices may well have been less however that’s a function of banks lending more and taking account of two earners. Many households then would have had one parent at home for the majority of the time/all of the time. Saving the state from funding mass babysitting.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Why, by your logic, should the younger generation pay for it? You said it..in regards to pensions………..

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------



You’re obviously not….check your privilege.

---------- Post added at 21:39 ---------- Previous post was at 21:38 ----------



You just hate pensioners don’t you? which is strange, because you will be one

---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:39 ----------



That homeless man, ex soldier that was screwed over, well…………he should have planned for his financial future better.

Replace ex soldier with single mother, chronically Ill, minimum wage, mentally Ill…the whole thing.

Is your Nick name “portaloo”? Complete the joke yourself.

Ah good old pierre using the edge/extreme case and attempting to make it the norm.

I do love how you suddenly care about pensioners, makes a change from the sociopathic persona in which you revel in presenting usually

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Pierre

You just hate pensioners don’t you? which is strange, because you will be one

I don't hate anyone mate. The young of today aren't going to get a fraction of the benefits current pensioners get, yet they are expected to fund current pensioners. That's not fair. Ideally we'd support everybody, but we can't because the last Govt has left us with a massive black hole of debt. The biggest for for a selfish election bribe that failed. Triple lock, Brexit, corrupt Covid contracts, lost the count of the no of PMs. If you want anyone to blame you know where to look , anyone that voted for them over the last 14 years . So you need to look in the mirror.

Early days but I think this Govt have done a good job so far.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by jfman

So the average worker…. Made less in the 1970s?

House prices may well have been less however that’s a function of banks lending more and taking account of two earners. Many households then would have had one parent at home for the majority of the time/all of the time. Saving the state from funding mass babysitting.

Things generally cost less as well you know, money went further. And you didn’t need a spanking deposit to purchase a house. There was also significantly more social housing available at affordable rents than there is now

---------- Post added at 22:00 ---------- Previous post was at 21:55 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

I don't hate anyone mate. The young of today aren't going to get a fraction of the benefits current pensioners get, yet they are expected to fund current pensioners. That's not fair. Ideally we'd support everybody, but we can't because the last Govt has left us with a massive black hole of debt. The biggest for for a selfish election bribe that failed. Triple lock, Brexit, corrupt Covid contracts, lost the count of the no of PMs. If you want anyone to blame you know where to look , anyone that voted for them over the last 14 years . So you need to look in the mirror.

Early days but I think this Govt have done a good job so far.

Partially agree , isn’t some of this massive black hole due to the 22% pay rise for junior doctors ? Which btw is a ridiculous increase