20mph is just the start.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Because as cars slow down they get closer together. Look what a reduction in the speed limit for road works does to traffic that was previously well spaced between vehicles. You get the same effect when vehicles reduce from 30 to 20.

---------- Post added at 15:30 ---------- Previous post was at 15:29 ----------



As I said it makes sense to the greenies…..

In the OED, under "Non sequitur", it says "see Old Boy"

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

Bingo! That's exactly why it reduces congestion.

It's the same reason they impose 40, 50 or 60mph limits on congested motorways. You can pack more cars into the same space if they go slower.

Here in Warrington we had planters installed on one of the roads, the out come was it moved all of the cars on to the only other road that could be used. The outcome of that was that the traffic was nose to tail from 07:30 till 17:30

They also reduced the speed on that only other road as well, not that it mattered as cars were nose to tail anyway.

Monitoring of the air provided information that showed that the congestion created increased the air pollution. In addition there was more rear end shunts. The council said they had decided to remove it 12 months later having listened to locals. However it came out that the Government had decided not to fund the project going forward.

The out come is that as everyone had said in the beginning they did it just to claim the funds from the Government

Part of the council statement on removal

“With government funding now withdrawn for new LTN schemes, it’s about looking to the future and identifying new ways of cutting the number of cars on our roads, reducing air pollution and protecting the health of our people and our planet. This work will continue and will need to be shaped by national guidance, policy and legislation.”

https://www.warrington.gov.uk/central-6-streets-plan

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by Paul

Isnt that the definition of congestion ?

Sounds correct to me

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

Bingo! That's exactly why it reduces congestion.

It's the same reason they impose 40, 50 or 60mph limits on congested motorways. You can pack more cars into the same space if they go slower.

It reduces congestion on a motorway with no crossroads, traffic lights or T-junctions. Not on the average well-used street. It's a rubbish idea unless well targeted.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Paul

Isnt that the definition of congestion ?

No, I'm talking about traffic moving freely at the speed limit. If you can't achieve the speed limit due to the volume of traffic, the speed limit isn't the problem.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

No, I'm talking about traffic moving freely at the speed limit. If you can't achieve the speed limit due to the volume of traffic, the speed limit isn't the problem.

If the speed limit stops cars moving freely, the speed limit will be the problem. More cars will have to stop at a crossroads etc per hour than previously.

[Pierre]

Blanket 20mph zones are just a bad idea. It’s simple and obvious.

It won’t save anymore lives and will increase pollution, and stress.

Anyone that supports them are either disingenuous or don’t drive.

Well our PM is against them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66965714

Sadly hes not likely to be in power long enough for it to matter.

I'm sure looney labour will be in favour.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

Well our PM is against them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66965714

Sadly hes not likely to be in power long enough for it to matter.

I'm sure looney labour will be in favour.

That's probably the most depressing part about it. The Conservatives don't really care about drivers, or making towns/cities more liveable places.

Simply weaponising the anger might be worth a couple of percentage points in the polls and they might not lose by quite as devastating an amount.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Itshim

Had in my area for a number of months, used to see spaces in road big enough to walk across. Now it's one long trail of vehicles, the main road in the village looks like a car park. Really quicker to walk it's length, noted car at the start still only half way be the time I am at the other end.

Our son noticed that several bus companies that used to route their buses through the village, now bypass it altogether due to the congestion. That means fewer buses for the locals to travel in-and-out of the city centre.

I now only rarely visit the local Lidl because getting out of the site is very difficult with the 20mph limit packing cars closer together.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by spiderplant

Bingo! That's exactly why it reduces congestion.

It's the same reason they impose 40, 50 or 60mph limits on congested motorways. You can pack more cars into the same space if they go slower.

That’s some weird logic you are using there, spiderplant!

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That’s some weird logic you are using there, spiderplant!

You do understand the concept of stopping distances don’t you?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That’s some weird logic you are using there, spiderplant!

It's a win win OB...

People hit by a vehicle at 20mph are around five times less likely to be killed than at 30mph   

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...h-speed-limits

Granted your Waitrose run may take a few seconds longer but a price worth paying ? (Not referring to the Waitrose prices here... )

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

That’s some weird logic you are using there, spiderplant!

It's true. Let's do some sums...

I'll use metric to keep it simple, but feel free to convert to whatever units you prefer.

Firstly, 30mph (48km/h). Now I'm sure you're a sensible driver, and always leave a safe gap from the car in front so you can stop if necessary. The Highway Code tells me the typical stopping distance at that speed is 23m. And let's say a typical car is 4m long. So each car at 30mph occupies 27m of road. So each hour, 48000/27 cars can travel along the road. That's 1778 cars per hour.

Now 20mph (32km/h). The stopping distance is 12m, and cars are still 4m long, so each car occupies 16m of road. Each hour, 32000/16 cars pass. That's 2000 cars per hour.

So by reducing speed from 30 to 20mph, you've managed to get 12% more traffic down the same road.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Mr K

It's a win win OB...

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...h-speed-limits

Granted your Waitrose run may take a few seconds longer but a price worth paying ? (Not referring to the Waitrose prices here... )

er, I'm the Waitrose shopper. OB shops at ASDA.