Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Britain outside the EU

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs
Register FAQ Community Calendar

Britain outside the EU
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-01-2025, 17:02   #6106
Chris
Trollsplatter
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,069
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
I really don't think Andrew is trying to convince you of anything, I suspect that he knows it's a lost cause Your use of the extravagant vocabulary ("supra-national body", " far-flung corners of Europe") is just distraction. The essential takeaway is that before 2016 we were legally required to maintain EU water quality standards and now with our new found "democratic freedoms", we are not longer made to enforce standards and so we don't.

The ultra-sovereign dogma trotted out when anyone raises the damage leaving the EU is amusing. Before 2016, no one cared about leaving the EU:

Only 1% of Brits cared much about the EU before the 2016 Brexit vote



The con job sold to the British public was off the chart, remarkable in how so many were persuaded to vote against their best interests. Of course, we always get: "yes but ... sovereignty" wheeled out but you can't eat sovereignty or go swimming in it
But you can use it to hold politicians accountable. Whether we do so or not is up to all of us. There’s nothing distracting about the phrase ‘supra-national’ - it is the very heart of the principle. The proposition was that Brexit is to blame for pollution incidents in the UK but that is obvious nonsense. As we are outside the EU it is our regulatory regime that is the sole factor at play. If our regulations are inadequate, the solution is to pester our politicians to fix it, not to abnegate responsibility in favour of a foreign bureaucracy with the power to extract money from the British economy in order to spend it on projects in Eastern Europe (or Ursula Von Der Lying’s private jet, take your pick).

Everything in the Lib Dem press release lurking behind the report in today’s ’I’ can ultimately be solved by British politicians enacting regulations with teeth, or if they won’t do so, by replacing them with ones that will. Bleating on about the ability of a foreign organisation’s willingness to swoop in and do it for us is a waste of time.

Last edited by Chris; 02-01-2025 at 17:53.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 02-01-2025, 19:41   #6107
Paul
Dr Pepper Addict
Cable Forum Team
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nottingham
Age: 62
Services: Aquiss FTTP (900M), Sky Q TV, Sky Mobile, Flextel SIP
Posts: 29,604
Paul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered stars
Paul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered stars
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
The con job sold to the British public was off the chart
LOL, still a bitter remainer then.
__________________

Baby, I was born this way.
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2025, 22:46   #6108
ianch99
cf.mega poster
 
ianch99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,725
ianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronze
ianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronze
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
LOL, still a bitter remainer then.
You happy then? Guess you must be ...
__________________
Unifi UCG Ultra + Unifi APs | VM 1Gbps
ianch99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2025, 23:03   #6109
ianch99
cf.mega poster
 
ianch99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,725
ianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronze
ianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronzeianch99 is cast in bronze
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
But you can use it to hold politicians accountable. Whether we do so or not is up to all of us. There’s nothing distracting about the phrase ‘supra-national’ - it is the very heart of the principle. The proposition was that Brexit is to blame for pollution incidents in the UK but that is obvious nonsense. As we are outside the EU it is our regulatory regime that is the sole factor at play. If our regulations are inadequate, the solution is to pester our politicians to fix it, not to abnegate responsibility in favour of a foreign bureaucracy with the power to extract money from the British economy in order to spend it on projects in Eastern Europe (or Ursula Von Der Lying’s private jet, take your pick).

Everything in the Lib Dem press release lurking behind the report in today’s ’I’ can ultimately be solved by British politicians enacting regulations with teeth, or if they won’t do so, by replacing them with ones that will. Bleating on about the ability of a foreign organisation’s willingness to swoop in and do it for us is a waste of time.
Again more deflection. I said that as part of the EU we were held to a common standard whereas now we are not. You can apply this to many sectors. Lots more double speak about "foreign bureaucracy", "extract money from the British economy", etc. The fact is for 40 years this country did very, very well from being part of a common market, yes, Thatcher's common market. Wrenching out an economy that had 40 years of free trade wiring and expecting not to lose billions is naive. Proclaiming sovereignty dogma and waving the union jack won't stump up the 40-odd billion every year or stop the decline.

You cannot complain about the Lib Dems doing what Farage & Crew did in spades in the run up to 2016. I mean he wrote the playbook. Going on about the evil EU or the miracles of blessed sovereignty won't change the historical record of the previous 40 years and the fact that no one cared about EU membership until the populist grifters turned up.
__________________
Unifi UCG Ultra + Unifi APs | VM 1Gbps
ianch99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2025, 23:07   #6110
Chris
Trollsplatter
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,069
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Britain outside the EU

Nope. No deflection at all. I do actually know how the EU works, and EU-wide common standards are totally irrelevant here.

We have a beach pollution problem. We have the means to a solution - laws made in our parliament, by our politicians, and enforced by our regulatory bodies. That’s how the entirety of the rest of the world works. It is normal. If we do not do it, or we do not do it adequately, then it is not ‘because of Brexit’, it is because those who lead us have failed us. And we have a remedy for that at the ballot box.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2025, 23:09   #6111
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,987
Pierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny stars
Pierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
as part of the EU we were held to a common standard

That statement, right there, proves you know nothing of the workings of the EU.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2025, 00:58   #6112
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,166
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Nope. No deflection at all. I do actually know how the EU works, and EU-wide common standards are totally irrelevant here.

We have a beach pollution problem. We have the means to a solution - laws made in our parliament, by our politicians, and enforced by our regulatory bodies. That’s how the entirety of the rest of the world works. It is normal. If we do not do it, or we do not do it adequately, then it is not ‘because of Brexit’, it is because those who lead us have failed us. And we have a remedy for that at the ballot box.
The article clearly says that the action against the UK for water quality was being closed "because of Brexit – even though wastewater spills “remain too elevated”.

---------- Post added at 00:58 ---------- Previous post was at 00:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Meanwhile, in the world of facts (as opposed to holiday season Lib Dem press releases), the UK has always been - oho! - crap at maintaining bathing water quality.
The article is not a Lib Dem press release. Agree with the latter part of your sentence though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
While things have vastly improved since the 1980s, by 2016 we were still comfortably below the EU average, despite, err, being in the EU and subject to its regulator. Graphs a-plenty here:

https://evonews.com/life/2017/may/24...-as-excellent/.
Yes, water quality vastly improved whilst we were in the EU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I’m sorry Andrew but you’re going to have to try a lot harder to convince me that a supra-national body fining UK organisations and then spending the proceeds in the far-flung corners of Europe is a good thing for the UK in the round. Whatever the current failings of our environmental regime, it is, as a matter of democratic principle, a matter for UK politicians who are accountable to the UK electorate.
I don't think anyone on this Forum has ever succeeded in convincing anyone to change their mind on issues like Brexit, but congratulations to anyone who has done so! The use of phrases like 'far-flung corners of Europe' rather than 'Europe' should act as a red flag to anyone who is thinking of trying to do so in this case.
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2025, 10:56   #6113
Chris
Trollsplatter
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 38,069
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The article is not a Lib Dem press release.
I thought there might be a limit to your naïveté, but apparently not.

https://www.libdems.org.uk/press/rel...it-for-purpose

As someone who has been both a journalist and a press officer, please take my word for it: this story began with that 17 December press release. It is most likely that the Lib Dem media team had the complainant, Robert Latimer, already lined up for any newspaper that contacted them for follow-up information. That is exactly how this works, and most especially that’s how it works at times of year when press officers know papers are short of content and will gratefully received whatever they’re given.

Last edited by Chris; 03-01-2025 at 11:09.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2025, 11:31   #6114
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,166
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I thought there might be a limit to your naïveté, but apparently not.

https://www.libdems.org.uk/press/rel...it-for-purpose

As someone who has been both a journalist and a press officer, please take my word for it: this story began with that 17 December press release. It is most likely that the Lib Dem media team had the complainant, Robert Latimer, already lined up for any newspaper that contacted them for follow-up information. That is exactly how this works, and most especially that’s how it works at times of year when press officers know papers are short of content and will gratefully received whatever they’re given.
Thanks for sharing the Lib Dem press release of 17th December.

The story evidently began a day earlier on 16th December with the press release from the OEP. Criticising a political party for responding to a press release lacks logic - they're expected to have an opinion on issues like this one.

Quote:
The Office for Environmental Protection (OEP) has concluded that there have been failures to comply with environmental law by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra), the Environment Agency (EA) and Ofwat following an investigation into the regulation of network combined sewer overflows (CSOs).
https://www.theoep.org.uk/news/oep-f...tory-oversight

I'm sure that any journalists looking to write on the story would have their quotable contacts lined up to approach and that political parties would facilitate this if it advanced their agendas.
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2025, 13:32   #6115
TheDaddy
cf.mega pornstar
 
TheDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,156
TheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden aura
TheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden aura
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
no one cared about EU membership until the populist grifters turned up.
That is correct, it wasn't a doorstep issue until Dave called the referendum
__________________
Sports Babble
TheDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2025, 13:43   #6116
Kursk
-.- ..- .-. ... -.-
 
Kursk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Island of Strangers
Posts: 2,959
Kursk has disabled reputation
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
That is correct, it wasn't a doorstep issue until Dave called the referendum
As reported by Onya Doorstep of UpNorth news?
Kursk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2025, 14:58   #6117
TheDaddy
cf.mega pornstar
 
TheDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,156
TheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden aura
TheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden aura
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
As reported by Onya Doorstep of UpNorth news?
No as discussed on here infinitum and tbh I have no real interest in revisiting except to say from memory less than 1% of voters considered the EU an important issue when Dave scrapped into power on 2010 and it still wasn't resonating right up until he called the referendum, he turned a party issue into this
__________________
Sports Babble
TheDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2025, 15:07   #6118
Kursk
-.- ..- .-. ... -.-
 
Kursk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Island of Strangers
Posts: 2,959
Kursk has disabled reputation
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
No as discussed on here infinitum and tbh I have no real interest in revisiting except to say from memory less than 1% of voters considered the EU an important issue when Dave scrapped into power on 2010 and it still wasn't resonating right up until he called the referendum, he turned a party issue into this
Sorry Daddy. It was just a playful reference to the Christmas Wallace and Gromit which featured Onya Doorstep.
Well worth a watch imho.
Kursk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2025, 21:27   #6119
Paul
Dr Pepper Addict
Cable Forum Team
 
Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nottingham
Age: 62
Services: Aquiss FTTP (900M), Sky Q TV, Sky Mobile, Flextel SIP
Posts: 29,604
Paul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered stars
Paul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered starsPaul is seeing silvered stars
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
Well worth a watch imho.
On a show hosted by Anton Dec IIRC

Sorry, carry on, I just had to mention that as I found it quite funny.
__________________

Baby, I was born this way.
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2025, 02:08   #6120
Kursk
-.- ..- .-. ... -.-
 
Kursk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Island of Strangers
Posts: 2,959
Kursk has disabled reputation
Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
On a show hosted by Anton Dec IIRC

Sorry, carry on, I just had to mention that as I found it quite funny.
Also:
Spoiler: 
the recharging, orgasmic gnome keeping Gromit awake and saying "1% charged..."

Ok, I'm done.
Kursk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:22.


Server: osmium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum