Here comes the tax rises

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

And where has anybody else provided the evidence for ZERO changes? 1,461 repealed is NOT zero changes.

Nice attempt at side stepping ….

1461 out of 2000 would show significant progress
1461 out of let’s say 6000 not so much.

[ianch99]

Rather than cover old ground again, let's look forward: what can the country do to reclaim some of the previous prosperity and improve public services/infrastructure. I have suggested that the Single Market would be, by far, the biggest beneficial change. What else can make a positive and significant difference?

I think the Budget had a lot of positives but also some amateurish mistakes. I have said that Starmer has little or no imagination and I guess we can see some of this here. The application of IHT of Farming estates was handled badly. They should have put some caveats to allow the small Farmers to be passed on to relatives as long as they continue the business plus a value threshold to differentiate these types of Farms from the larger agri-businesses.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Mr K

No point in increasing NI contributions for public sector employers. The Govt would have to pay the increase, to pay themselves the increased tax.

Different departmental budget.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by denphone

Whoever formed the next government would have had to put up taxes of some sort.

The reality of the last 14 years saw to that.

What, like Covid and the Russia/Ukraine war?

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

The previous Govt of brave Brexiteers had over 4 years to burn the regs, but discovered they were actually needed. Who'd have thought?!

They are certainly not all needed, but they do need to be disentangled. For example, the GDPR is overly bureaucratic, but you can’t just repeal it because you need to ensure that data is still protected. Same with the Working Time legislation, which needs amending rather than repealing altogether.

However, yes, I am disappointed that the government didn’t make much better progress on this.

---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 19:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

And the tangible benefits** of those changes were*?

*nb - "sovereignty" is not a "tangible benefit"

** Tangible benefits are positive results that can be accurately measured and quantified with standard measurements. The term describes any kind of outcome that is directly associated with financial gain or loss.

If you are expecting a line by line explanation, you are going to be dreadfully disappointed.

---------- Post added at 19:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

Originally Posted by daveeb

Unfortunately it's akin to watching coal form. People, especially politicians, can't admit it when they got it badly wrong.

Don’t you mean ‘the electorate got it badly wrong’? (Not that they did, of course).

After all, it was the decision of our voters.

Originally posted by OLD BOY

If you are expecting a line by line explanation, you are going to be dreadfully disappointed.

How can I be disappointed when I didn’t expect anything?

Don’t you mean ‘the electorate got it badly wrong’? (Not that they did, of course).

And in one fell swoop, "OLD BOY” became a synonym for "Oh, the irony…"

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY;36185307What, like Covid and the0))0?t added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------[/SIZE

.

After all, it was the decision of our voters.

Yet again I repeat, the majority of the UK voters , did not vote for Labour, anymore than they did when the tories were in power.

[Pierre]

They’ve screwed up big time with the inheritance tax on farms.

They’re idiots and have not thought it through at all……which is really worrying and shows ignorant form, as they did with WFA.

This will be reversed, very quietly, in the next 12 months………..just wait for Iran to nuke Israel and they’ll announce it then.

How many farms will be affected by Budget tax rises?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rlk0d2vk2o

Paul Johnson, the director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), an independent economy think-tank, told Sky News: "The changes will affect a remarkably small number of some of the most valuable farms."

He added: "[Farms are] still more generously treated, actually, than farms used to be in decades past."

The Treasury estimates that 500 estates including agricultural land will be affected by the agricultural property relief reform, external per year.

Dan Neidle, an independent tax expert, says the number of actual farms, external affected is likely to be below 500 per year.

There were a total of 462 inherited farms valued above £1m in 2021-22, according to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), external:

345 valued between £1m and £2.5m
80 at £2.5m to £5m
37 above £5m

Under the new rules, those 462 farms would be affected by the 20% inheritance tax on any value above £1m (not on the whole value).

However, as Mr Neidle points out, like for the rest of the population, there is no inheritance tax to be paid on the value of property up to £325,000, bringing the untaxed total to £1.325m.

If a farmer is married, his or her spouse would be able to pass on another £1.325m tax free, taking the total untaxed amount to £2.65m.

There were 117 farms valued above £2.5m in 2021-22, according to the HMRC figures, external.

In addition, there is an £175,000 tax-free allowance on a main residence when it's being passed on to children or grandchildren. This brings the total untaxed amount for a farming couple to up to £3m.

One of the reasons this was brought in was that very wealthy people (James Dyson amongst them, who has bought up 37,000 acres of farmland in the last 15 years) bought farmland as a way of avoiding Inheritance Tax on those assets, whilst also driving up the price of farmland.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/prime...lionaire-dyson

Billionaire inventor Sir James Dyson has embarked on an agricultural spending spree, snapping up thousands of acres of Lincolnshire farmland.

The vacuum cleaner tycoon is believed to have paid some £150m for more than 6,800ha (17,000 acres), purchased through his new company Beeswax Farming (Rainbow) Ltd. The land includes much of the Nocton estate, near Lincoln.

… Buying farmland is popular with many wealthy investors because it doesn’t incur inheritance tax. Some critics feel this unfairly bumps up land values, pricing “genuine” farmers out of the market. But others feel it can create opportunities, too.

Average English farmland values reached a record high of £22,500/ha (£9,100/acre) during the last three months of 2012, according to land agent Smiths Gore. Bare land values rose 6% in the final quarter of 2012, although equipped land values remained unchanged.

Lincolnshire grower Andrew Ward, a former Farmers Weekly Arable Farmer of the Year, said: “If you have to borrow all that money at £8,000-10,000 an acre, it is an absolute non-starter because you cannot fund that sort of lending purely out of farming.”

Originally Posted by Pierre

They’ve screwed up big time with the inheritance tax on farms.

Why ?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Pierre

They’ve screwed up big time with the inheritance tax on farms.

They’re idiots and have not thought it through at all……which is really worrying and shows ignorant form, as they did with WFA.

This will be reversed, very quietly, in the next 12 months………..just wait for Iran to nuke Israel and they’ll announce it then.

You need to listen less of Clarkson and Dyson who basically bought the farmland to avoid paying tax.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

One of the reasons this was brought in was that very wealthy people (James Dyson amongst them, who has bought up 37,000 acres of farmland in the last 15 years) bought farmland as a way of avoiding Inheritance Tax on those assets, whilst also driving up the price of farmland.

fine, go after James Dyson then.

many farmers are asset rich and cash poor, making around 1% profit on what they put into the farm. And it's not just about APR and BPR, the land and property is one thing but you also have all the farm machinery, stock, livestock etc that would be factored in.

You'll end up with smaller farms (BTW 3million is not a lot of money for a tax relief amount, in Yorkshire let alone further south, or anywhere else.) potentially having to sell some of the farm...to who? James bloody Dyson probably, or some city conglomerate that see's an opportunity, or Bill Gates (biggest farmland owner in the US)

We'll end up with farms owned by banks and venture capitalists instead of the actual farmers.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

We'll end up with farms owned by banks and venture capitalists instead of the actual farmers.

The current system drives farmland into the hands of banks, venture capitalists and high net worth individuals like James Dyson. The changes seek to discourage this.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The current system drives farmland into the hands of banks, venture capitalists and high net worth individuals like James Dyson. The changes seek to discourage this.

Time will tell, I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Time will tell, I doubt it.

Well, it will discourage buying farming land purely as an investment since it's no longer a loophole to avoid tax. Why would Dyson buy it up if that money is now subject to just as much inheritance tax?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

Well, it will discourage buying farming land purely as an investment since it's no longer a loophole to avoid tax. Why would Dyson buy it up if that money is now subject to just as much inheritance tax?

I am reminded by a comment that was said to me by a conveyancer.

I bought a section of field from a farmer, next to my property. not massive 7m x 45m.

When negotiating with the farmer I had a figure in mind, and an absolute top figure I would not go over or god strike me dead.

We shook on double the top figure.

When doing the paperwork the conveyancer said "you did well there"

I said "you're joking aren't you".

he said "you're lucky he sold it to you at all, the thing about land is...they don't make it anymore....."