NTL Broadband ZERO CAP Theory!

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by Mauldor

Another question, why would these elite hackers be spending time attacking a Home computer with nothing worth having when there is much better and harder targets out there?

Good question. Prolly cause coolape has annoyed some l33t script kiddies in irc-land who now want to show coolape that they 0wn him but have got neither the maturity nor the intelligence to do it in style, oh and they also think that reading old posts on 2600.com makes them uber-hax0rs.

*sigh* I'd forgotten all about the joys of channels such as #l33t_h4x0rs or #uber_h4x0rs_0wn_joo in irc.

/me is off to read www.bash.org/?browse

[Thorny]

So you have like 6 computers in your home and you cant afford a BNC that costs less than £1 a month? Dont any of your leet hacker friends have access to a spare BNC to give you? I know I got my BNC for free and it wasnt that hard.

Nothing you say is adding up, it all sounds like aload of BS to me, you claim to not know how to hack or have no desire to hack but you make a topic on trying to trick the NTL network into giving you more bandwidth.

Cant you compress your photos? even NASA's high resolution photos on the net are smaller than yours. Why would you need to upload all these huge files anyway? if you want to keep them why not keep them on your altra secure hackproof computer.

Also I believe perminantly hosting any sort of server, such as a CS 6 vs 6 server is against NTL's T&C, atleast it was last time i checked.

I think your usage is the cause of many peoples posts saying "My pings ingame are crap" or "my download speed is poor" or "I keep getting dossed for no reason at all".

[simpsonsFAN]

Originally Posted by theblueraja

...move to ADSL...

is that a serious comment?,
someone who downloads [Begin BS] 4GB per day [/End BS] will have better performence on cable than ADSL, as far as im aware the ADSL that we use in the uk is not even a international standard yet (eg, a UK adsl modem wont work in US, am i right this is still the case?).

DOCSIS on the other hand is a new internationally recognised standard (International Telecommunication Union J.112), it has been perfected since its introduction in 1995, and was designed specificly for delivering broadband over cable in the US.

ADSL relying on the old rat-eaten, dog-chewed telephone lines laid by the post office over 100 years ago for, mono, half duplex audio... is now a wooping 8bit, lol, it was origionally designed for delivering video on demand to pc's, but was adapted to carry internet data, as there were no good tv shows in the late 80's .

ADSL is only capable of 8MB per sec, with heavy packet loss (i havent had intrest in ADSL for awile, so things may have changed since then), but the speed still heavily depends on line performance...

If we were compairing DOCISS to RADSL (the latest DSL service, again im very old and havent caught up with all this new technology yet, so there is bound to be something even newer ), then you would have made a valid point, in testing i belive that RADSL was more reliable than ethernet, as it adapts to the line it is on, and works out how many times each packet should be sent, calculates the maximum possible speed (something like 50mb/s per 20kilometers), and delivers unpresedented performance, even on a line with alot of interference/resistance).

However at this present time cable is still the superiour technology, so the comment "move to ADSL" is very vague, something like "ntl is cr*p" i would have understood and felt for, but you wouldent suggest to someone with Austin Martin, to switch to a Skoda would you? - i will level with you, i have ntl, it is rubbish, constant downtine, no support (sorry if you happen to work in swansea faults, but i dont like you ), if ntl were to look at cable's implementation in the US, then they would p1ss themselfs.

as for "ADSL - what cap?", i dont belive ntl themselfs have a formal cap, as i have never heard anything of it, the 1GB per day, was in the user policy not there terms and conditions. A policy is a an guideline principle that should be tried to be stuck to, however if broken is not a conditon of use, and as formulated outside the judiciary, no law would have been broken.

So i dont belive ntl have the legal power to disconnect someone on the grounds that they pulled more than ntl recommend, unless ntl have proof/evidence that they are causing disruption of service to another customour, and could probable sue the individual if that customour were to leave, for "loss of income".

theblueraja, I hope you can tell, that i have far to much time on my hands, and i have manedged to write all this from your mere 46 character post, lol.

-Chris

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

<snip>

In my experience ADSL has been a million times better than my Ntl connection, whether it's an international standards really has nothing to do with it.

[simpsonsFAN]

Originally Posted by dellwear

In my experience ADSL has been a million times better than my Ntl connection, whether it's an international standards really has nothing to do with it.

Really?, would you let someone install a gas boiler in your house if it did not meet proper saftey standards?, something that has been comfirmed to work, and will be continued to be inproved in the future is going to be better, than the POTS (Plain old telephone system) which has no groth beyond 8mb?!.

Cable is the newer superiour way forward for ISP's, which when installed proberly (dont trust ntl to do this), should give better performance than ADSL, why yours did not, dellwear, is not my concern.

-Chris

[Russ]

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

Really?, would you let someone install a gas boiler in your house if it did not meet proper saftey standards?,

Not the best analogy I feel, seeing as one is potentially life threatening, compared to a method of providing the internet.

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

Cable is the newer superiour way forward for ISP's

Why do you believe this to be so?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Why do you believe this to be so?

One word: Bandwidth. The bandwidth available on cable is far greater than that available via POTS. Assuming NTL install head-end hardware with enough bandwidth that is..

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

Really?, would you let someone install a gas boiler in your house if it did not meet proper saftey standards?, something that has been comfirmed to work, and will be continued to be inproved in the future is going to be better, than the POTS (Plain old telephone system) which has no groth beyond 8mb?!.

It works, at least for me and that is the issue. Cable doesn't. There is no contest!

Cable is the newer superiour way forward for ISP's, which when installed proberly (dont trust ntl to do this), should give better performance than ADSL, why yours did not, dellwear, is not my concern.

-Chris

That may well be true, however if the cable network in my area operated by Ntl doesn't work in practise what has the theory got to do with it?

And as for there being so much more bandwidth on cable why are they only jut starting to introduce speeds I've been enjoying for nearly 12 months now?

Maybe I should have waited, after all I don't want my BB to kill me do I!

[Mauldor]

Maybe I can sum it all up in a nice little package

The Business end (NTL/BT etc) have 'something' in place that works, for a home customer they are not going to dig up roads and lay fibre so people can have 2mbit each way (or faster of course) when the return will not make them a profit. A Business (company with lots of dosh) is prepeared to pay £XXX for a line that is fast enough for there needs, such as Leased Line from BT etc. In that case BT will happily Lay Line that only they have access too thus no bandwidth problems and also comes with it terms of service, by which i mean fixed the second it goes down (in theory anyhow).

Now the customer (me, you and a man named bob) want the following:

A Fast line, the faster the better, 10mbit both way would just about do i think. The price, as we are mere people who dont earn £300 a hour has to be within budgets - so lets say £25-30 a month...

You can see from this its a chicken and egg thing, NTL/BT/Whoever wont go rushing out and laying Fibre to ever home "just in case" they sign up for Boradband, they dont have the money to chuck around "in case" it works.

Lastly then, here is a couple of examples of where it has worked...

1. I speak to Telewest for a FAST internet line for the Library, as the main office is a mere spit throw away, they can happliy supply a 45mbit line for a VERY cheap cost (a cost most home users would pay easy). but of course not everybody is down the road from the main Office.

2. NTl did a trial, some lucky so and so (london) gets a 155mbit line for what, £20 a month (including TV + Phone). This never lasted (as a trial) but they did trial it for some reason...

[carlingman]

Originally Posted by Mauldor

Maybe I can sum it all up in a nice little package

The Business end (NTL/BT etc) have 'something' in place that works, for a home customer they are not going to dig up roads and lay fibre so people can have 2mbit each way (or faster of course) when the return will not make them a profit. A Business (company with lots of dosh) is prepeared to pay £XXX for a line that is fast enough for there needs, such as Leased Line from BT etc. In that case BT will happily Lay Line that only they have access too thus no bandwidth problems and also comes with it terms of service, by which i mean fixed the second it goes down (in theory anyhow).

Now the customer (me, you and a man named bob) want the following:

A Fast line, the faster the better, 10mbit both way would just about do i think. The price, as we are mere people who dont earn £300 a hour has to be within budgets - so lets say £25-30 a month...

You can see from this its a chicken and egg thing, NTL/BT/Whoever wont go rushing out and laying Fibre to ever home "just in case" they sign up for Boradband, they dont have the money to chuck around "in case" it works.

Lastly then, here is a couple of examples of where it has worked...

1. I speak to Telewest for a FAST internet line for the Library, as the main office is a mere spit throw away, they can happliy supply a 45mbit line for a VERY cheap cost (a cost most home users would pay easy). but of course not everybody is down the road from the main Office.

2. NTl did a trial, some lucky so and so (london) gets a 155mbit line for what, £20 a month (including TV + Phone). This never lasted (as a trial) but they did trial it for some reason...

Spot on as not so many moons ago NTL did do such a thing whereby they offered a fibre optic link into a large appartment complex in London offering a 10Mbps connection for 49.99 a month for 12 months and then refunded so a free service for the big wigs.

They also had their own dedicated support line to by pass the call queues.

Policy was with these guys as well were faults were escalated immediately and these people were gods and would only be spoken too by seniors not the loley techs on the floor.

Never did here what happened to the original 12 month trial as was long gone by then myself.

Just goes to show they do look after some of their prospective customers.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by carlingman

They also had their own dedicated support line to by pass the call queues.

Policy was with these guys as well were faults were escalated immediately and these people were gods and would only be spoken too by seniors not the loley techs on the floor.

Actually, I would have thought that was standard practice with any trial. The people on the trial would need direct (or fairly direct) access to the team running the trial.

Apart from anything else, it wouldn't look too good if they got through the the first line support techs (who may not know about the trial) who then said "10 Meg? Sorry, we don't do a 10 Meg service.".

I suspect those on the BMR software beta probably get similar treatment for the same reason.

[carlingman]

Originally Posted by scastle

Actually, I would have thought that was standard practice with any trial. The people on the trial would need direct (or fairly direct) access to the team running the trial.

Apart from anything else, it wouldn't look too good if they got through the the first line support techs who then said "10 Meg? Sorry, we don't do a 10 Meg service.".

Hmm in an ideal world yes.

But the calls were routed directly firstly to their own dedicated support in Brighton between 7am to 9pm Monday to Saturday and if they could not solve the problem they were passed through a dedicated overrule in the call system with a pop up/handshake saying Brighton call etc.

At this time all the techs on the floor were aware of the package/deal but the calls would route through senior extensions firstly and then at that time to any cable modem techs signed in and again greated with the message "dolphin transfer".

Hence it bypassed all the other techs even though they new about the trial as at that time they was no trials team as such.

[Mauldor]

The point ref the trail btw was that the test centre I beleive was not that far from where these flats were, so not uber hard to impplement (or costly I imagine). What I was always puzzled at though, what was the aim of this trial? Sure wiring from NTL building to something close is not hard or too costly but on the grander scale of things - it would cost a bit if a arm and a leg.

I spoke to the guy who had it on IRC (#nthellworld) way back then and he said it was def 155mbit. not that it matters if it was 10mbit or 155mbit - they are both fast....

I remember when he got told he was going back to normal cable, he was a tad bit annoyed to say the least

[Skippy81]

Hi all, my first post for all its worth:-

Originally Posted by Thorny

I think your usage is the cause of many peoples posts saying "My pings ingame are crap" or "my download speed is poor" or "I keep getting dossed for no reason at all".

I totally agree. While on the surface being part of the "HaX0r underground" may seem like a bit of fun, by constantly releasing your DHCP, you are simply making others the target of a bunch of idiotic script kiddies. I changed my router once, and as I forgot to clone my old MAC, ended up with a "hot" IP being constantly SYNed by a bunch of 12 year old "1337 Hackers". Lets face it, if you want to further your knowledge of hacking/cracking you'd be better off learning from the many helpful peeps on the internet who are more than happy to share their knowledge of TCP/IP and programming. Most of these IRC channels are run by morons for morons, who can't understand that downloading and using pre-written exploits against others demonstrates no skill or inteligence whatsoever. I feel sorry for all those whose proxy servers are being abused for the purposes of kiddie chat on IRC.

Also, fiddling with your cable modem's MAC address is not only against the TOS agreement with NTL, but is also illegal in cases where you "accidently" cloned someone else's cable MAC. It is no different to stealing electricity, a phone line or gas.

As for running servers, etc on an NTL connection, I think that the rule of thumb is to have respect for other paying customers in your area. Theres no harm in running a small HTTP server or anything similar, providing that you are aware of how much upload bandwidth you are using. As for downloads, 4GB a day is absurd. I download a lot of stuff, but only stuff that I need or use, if you are downloading that much stuff I expect that you delete half of it without even using it.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Skippy81

Hi all, my first post for all its worth:-

I totally agree. While on the surface being part of the "HaX0r underground" may seem like a bit of fun, by constantly releasing your DHCP, you are simply making others the target of a bunch of idiotic script kiddies. <snip>

.


Welcome to the forum, and well said. I actually agree with all of it, deleted the rest in the quote above to keep my post brief.

I will add to your reputation accordingly..