Starmer’s chronicles

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I can't work out how pensioners became filthy rich under the Tory's but everyone else became poor

Probably because no one has said that…

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I can't work out how pensioners became filthy rich under the Tory's but everyone else became poor

You'd need to look at the policies of the last Govt . 'We're all in this together' wasn't true. Unbelievable I know...

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Over what timescale? Labour can't be blamed for the massive debt the last Govt kept hidden. You (and others) gave the last Govt 14 years and voted for national suicide (Brexit) . An ageing non productive population is the result. Take some responsibility for your actions and give this Govt the same time to put things right. A few months isnt reasonable. We need to stop wasting money on rich pensioners and give the few youngsters left in this country some hope and reason to stay here. It'll take decades to recover from ancient little Englanders and their constant whinging about their own decisions.

Hidden massive debt? The figures are published. The £22bn "black hole" was debunked by the OBR.

---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:35 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Totally agree with you…

On that point…

- The Conservative Party suspended the triple lock in 2021, breaking a Manifesto pledge
- The Conservatives broke a manifesto commitment to fix the social care crisis, and successive Conservative Governments promised to publish a plan to improve social care - Alzheimers UK found that families are being forced to shoulder 63% of the cost of dementia care (equivalent to £51,000 a year on average)
- Boris Johnson pledged in 2019 that no-one would have to sell their house to pay for social care under a Conservative government. In 2020, more than 17,000 pensioners were forced to sell their homes to pay for social care (reported in the Daily Mail).

The triple lock was suspended in 2021 because of the artificial increase in wages post-covid. Wages dropped in 2020 and then returned to previous levels giving the appearance of inflated pay rises. Across the 2 years or so there was no big rise, so they kept to the intent of the "triple lock" with inflation linked rises instead. Don't know what the actual figures were, but eg if wages dropped 10% in 2020 and then returned to previous levels, it would give the false impression that there had been an 11% rise in wages, when the actual overall rise was zero.

The quirks of using annual figures showed up again, when there was high inflation. Therefore they got an inflation based increase(10.1%). As a result of inflation, pay rises over the next year shot up, which led to above inflation pension rises(8.5%). They had already received the inflationary increase once over the year before, and so again received another artificially high increase.



If people are living in care homes, then the house ISN'T their home.It is merely an unused asset, so why shouldn't it be sold?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by nomadking

If people are living in care homes, then the house ISN'T their home.It is merely an unused asset, so why shouldn't it be sold?

There’s certainly valid argument there but the point in question was bullshitting Boris lied through his teeth (again) when he made it part of his manifesto.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Think of it as taking over a house the previous occupants trashed, and who left a mess behind - it takes time, cost, and effort to get it back to a reasonable standard before you can make the improvements you want.

Anyone who expects overnight fixes (by whoever is in power) is deluding themselves, or just going for cheap political points…

Think of it as taking over a house, the previous occupants had indeed mistreated, but were in the process of doing up. They had a very limited budget but decided to pay the plasterer and roofer 10% more than they had quoted.

They gave away some of the budget to strangers.

They decided to pay for the extra expenditure by putting up all the prices in the corner shop they owned, but people didn’t go to the shop, and shopped elsewhere.


They ended up losing the house………

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Russ

There’s certainly valid argument there but the point in question was bullshitting Boris lied through his teeth (again) when he made it part of his manifesto.

Did he get elected on said manifesto?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

sluggish economy .

And how do you invigorate a sluggish economy?

By discouraging investment? By discouraging employment?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

And how do you invigorate a sluggish economy?

By discouraging investment? By discouraging employment?

That's what BoJo did in 2021 and one of the reasons why the economy is where it is today. Taxing hard working businesses is not the solution but an honest penny on income tax doesn't win elections.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Taxing hard working businesses is not the solution.

So why are Labour doing it?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

So why are Labour doing it?

I've explained before why I think they've raised the revenue this way.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Over what timescale? Labour can't be blamed for the massive debt the last Govt kept hidden.

The financial situation was caused by Covid and the Ukraine/Russia war, so I agree with you that Labour was not responsible for that.

Originally Posted by Mr K

You (and others) gave the last Govt 14 years and voted for national suicide (Brexit) . An ageing non productive population is the result.

Not sure I follow you there. Brexit was a good thing for us, but the problem was that the government failed to implement many of the measures that would have made it work. Rishi’s heart certainly wasn’t in it, and we are still saddled with EU regulations, which should have been abolished early in the life of the administration.

But what exactly is your argument about an ‘aging non productive population?

Don’t blame the elderly for any of this. They’ve done their bit, but what about the lazy so-and-sos who refuse to work and who are content to claim benefits instead?

Originally Posted by Mr K

Take some responsibility for your actions and give this Govt the same time to put things right. A few months isnt reasonable.

What I do agree with is that Labour need time to put this right. However, my confidence that this will happen has been tested by the decisions that they have been taking since getting to power. For example, did Rach really understand the implications of increasing employers’ NI contributions? How exactly will that promote growth?

Originally Posted by Mr K

We need to stop wasting money on rich pensioners and give the few youngsters left in this country some hope and reason to stay here.

What are you saying? Rich pensioners? Do you know any?

Originally Posted by Mr K

It'll take decades to recover from ancient little Englanders and their constant whinging about their own decisions.

That’s just daft.

What exactly is a "Rich pensioner" ?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Over what timescale? Labour can't be blamed for the massive debt the last Govt kept hidden. You (and others) gave the last Govt 14 years and voted for national suicide (Brexit) . An ageing non productive population is the result. Take some responsibility for your actions and give this Govt the same time to put things right. A few months isnt reasonable. We need to stop wasting money on rich pensioners and give the few youngsters left in this country some hope and reason to stay here. It'll take decades to recover from ancient little Englanders and their constant whinging about their own decisions.

Let me introduce to you …….Karl Marx, everyone…..a wonderful guy…

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Not sure I follow you there. Brexit was a good thing for us, but the problem was that the government failed to implement many of the measures that would have made it work. Rishi’s heart certainly wasn’t in it, and we are still saddled with EU regulations, which should have been abolished early in the life of the administration.

If you trade with them you follow their regulations don't you? Was bozo and lord frosts heart not in it either, actually I'm not sure frosts was, all he's done is moan about the deal he negotiated and bozo will side with whatever works best for him so maybe you're right

What are you saying? Rich pensioners? Do you know any?

That’s just daft.

Funnily enough the only ones I know are loaded...

[Russ]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

What are you saying? Rich pensioners? Do you know any?

Back in 1991 my first proper job after Uni was as a police civilian clerk, in short on shift with one of the policing teams. I was barely out of my teens and we also had some uniformed officers not much older than myself.

One of those went on to make it to Chief Inspector and took retirement on a full pension at 50 (as many cops do) but applied to do a civvy job in the police at supervisory level, the salary would have been around £32k.

So on top of that monthly wage, he also has his police pension (which I would never criticise him for as he was a damn good cop).

I don't know exactly what he's on (it's none of my business), but I'd consider him a well-off, if not 'rich', pensioner.

And as much as I liked the guy if I heard him complain about the fuel allowance removal I'd call him a knobhead to his face,