Here comes the tax rises

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

.... and this is related to tax rises how ?

Pierre raised the cost of housing illegal immigrants.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by nffc

As far as I understand the last Government did ensure that the shadow cabinet was given access to all the budget forecasts, financial info etc.


Ms Reeves was shadow chancellor before the election so her department would have been made aware of the actual situation long before they were in power.


It's simply mendacious for them to suggest they did not know the full picture and totally immoral for them to campaign on the basis that they would not be increasing these taxes, and then to do so - or announce plans to do so - within a month of winning the election.


I'm sure that when Mr Starmer (or Sir or whatever he wants to be) was in opposition and there were issues with fuel due to external factors such as the lockdowns his party wanted more of, harder, longer, earlier, and the situation in the Ukraine, where there was a genuine inflation issue after the pandemic etc, and the Government brought in support measures such as the fuel allowances and extended them so more people didn't have the choice whether to heat or eat, this was something he was in favour of and was probably campaigning for. Now the boot is on the other foot he's now seeing he has to pay for it as well as the other things he's promised and now can't afford it.


I'm also pretty certain the plan to remove the VAT exemption on independent school fees is going to cause mayhem, some parents will not be able to afford this (at school there was plenty of parents who were not well off and they went without so the kids could get the education), and so the kids will have to move into the state sector, if this happens to enough or too many kids in one school this could cause more kids to be displaced if the schools have to close. So more places needed in state schools, more teachers needed and they won't be getting as much VAT... Also, with this one, the big irony is that EU rules prevent taxation of childrens' education, so literally they can only do this because of the Brexit Sir Keir is wanting to overturn...

I'm pretty sure the VAT on private schools will have little affect. Those can that can afford it will think nothing of paying a bit more to stop their darlings mixing with the riff raff. The schools will absorb some it anyway if they want to remain competitive. Surely better to use the money to put into the state system, raise standards so there no need for private schools, other than snobbery.

The winter fuel allowance was absurd to fund for well off pensioners, as was funding their tv licences. We can't afford it, and shouldn't have been exempt just because they probably. vote Tory.

Definitely right to keep it for the less well off on Pension credit. An effort needs to made to ensure those that qualify claim. There are billions in all unclaimed benefits folks should be getting, the DWP don't seem worried about that or make any effort to reach them.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I'm pretty sure the VAT on private schools will have little affect. Those can that can afford it will think nothing of paying a bit more to stop their darlings mixing with the riff raff. The schools will absorb some it anyway if they want to remain competitive. Surely better to use the money to put into the state system, raise standards so there no need for private schools, other than snobbery.

The winter fuel allowance was absurd to fund for well off pensioners, as was funding their tv licences. We can't afford it, and shouldn't have been exempt just because they probably. vote Tory.

Definitely right to keep it for the less well off on Pension credit. An effort needs to made to ensure those that qualify claim. There are billions in all unclaimed benefits folks should be getting, the DWP don't seem worried about that or make any effort to reach them.

Diane Abbott sent her son away to keep him away from the local "riff-raff", ie her voters.


Those just above the Pension Credit threshold will be badly affected.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Those just above the Pension Credit threshold will be badly affected.

£200 will barely cover 1 month in winter its not that significant. The likes of OB can just cancel one of his streaming subs if he's getting chilly....

More does need to be done to make sure that those that qualify for Pension Credit claim, as that is an issue. I'd have been in favour of increasing the heating allowance to £300 for those that qualify. We need to target benefits better.

[Taf]

It's old folk on modest pensions who'll fund pay rises for the public sector.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Taf

It's old folk on modest pensions who'll fund pay rises for the public sector.

Fair enough, it's the public sector the pensioners rely on most, and their wages have decreased in real terms for over a decade. Pensioners triple lock has been at the expense of everyone else. They need to remember 'we're all in it together' as the 'great' man once said.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I'm pretty sure the VAT on private schools will have little affect. Those can that can afford it will think nothing of paying a bit more to stop their darlings mixing with the riff raff. The schools will absorb some it anyway if they want to remain competitive. Surely better to use the money to put into the state system, raise standards so there no need for private schools, other than snobbery.

A common misconception that everyone that sends their kids to private school is loaded.

I know two sets of friends that made a choice to send their kids to a local private school, and they made sacrifices to do that. If you sent your kids to this school they were pretty much guaranteed to pass their 11+ and get into grammar school.

I chose not to do that, as our locat primary was graded as Excellent, and the local Comp was recently rebuilt had excellent facilities and achieved good results.

but what putting VAT on private schools actually does, is ensures that only the really wealthy will have the choice to send their kids to private school and those on lower incomes willing to sacrifice for their kids have had that choice taken away.

It's actually a policy I would expect from a conservative government as it only ensures and compounds the privilege of the wealthy.

The winter fuel allowance was absurd to fund for well off pensioners, as was funding their tv licences. We can't afford it, and shouldn't have been exempt just because they probably. vote Tory.

Definitely right to keep it for the less well off on Pension credit. An effort needs to made to ensure those that qualify claim. There are billions in all unclaimed benefits folks should be getting, the DWP don't seem worried about that or make any effort to reach them.

Just because a pensioner isn't receiving pension credit, does not mean they are well off.

If your income is higher than £218.15 a week, you don't qualify.

so if you're on a whopping £220 a week - no help with your bills, far too well off with all that cash.

Thank you Labour, the nasty party.

---------- Post added at 10:41 ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

£200 will barely cover 1 month in winter its not that significant. .

why scrap it then?

That's a crazy argument anyway. It's like saying to a starving man, it's only half a sandwich why bother.

---------- Post added at 10:46 ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Fair enough, it's the public sector the pensioners rely on most, and their wages have decreased in real terms for over a decade. Pensioners triple lock has been at the expense of everyone else. They need to remember 'we're all in it together' as the 'great' man once said.

That triple lock has ensured that pensioners get a whopping £11,400 a year. Just imagine how bad it would be if the triple lock wasn't in place.

The min wage on a 40hr week is £23,800.

[mrmistoffelees]

I would have to ask why more pensioners who are complaining about this didn’t invest in private pensions? Or, was it they lacked the foresight to plan for their future and made the assumption that the state would always look after them ? Alongside the good old argument of ‘I’ve paid my tax and NI all my life I’m entitled to my pension’ whilst failing to understand how it works.

The increase of the triple lock because of the high interest rate is substantially more than the fuel allowance anyway. 8.5% increase this year because they made sure it was linked to the higher inflation figure. That's £902.20 increase this year vs £200 for the fuel allowance.

I am not a fan of removing it because when you means test you will always have people that don't fit into a simple box. It's not a case of poor vs rich, there will be people on the borderline.

But if you need to cut benefits so much has already been cut where else do you find money? This was low-hanging fruit when most of those losing this benefit are getting £900 extra this year.

What Labour should have done is reverse the NI cuts. The last one alone cost £5 billion a year. Easily enough to keep this benefit. Again it's taxing people in work for the benefit of pensioners but until the economy improves tax cuts are a bit much.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by Paul

.... and this is related to tax rises how ?

Paying for them comes off the money tree in Dover Harbour , not our taxes l guess

[nffc]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I'm pretty sure the VAT on private schools will have little affect. Those can that can afford it will think nothing of paying a bit more to stop their darlings mixing with the riff raff. The schools will absorb some it anyway if they want to remain competitive. Surely better to use the money to put into the state system, raise standards so there no need for private schools, other than snobbery.

That will be the case for some schools and some parents but not all of them.


Plenty of kids in private schools are not from rich backgrounds but either on scholarships or bursaries or the parents just go without so that the kids can go to the schools.


It won't be the filthy rich kids who lose out, but those from less affluent backgrounds for whom 20% extra on fees would be too much and which the schools might not be able to help with, or might not be able to afford.


If you have parents who are paying 20k a year for the school place and there's about 100 kids in the year then each year (times 7 for a secondary school) makes the school £2 million a year, meaning overall fees coming in for this would be 14 million a year. Then you see that 20% VAT on top of those doesn't go to the school it goes to the Government so the school's income is the same. If let's say 10 kids in each year decide they can't afford it and have to drop out into a state school that's then 90 kids in 7 years so 12.6m income, which the school then loses 1.4m from its budget. Enough kids leaving means the school will have to make budget cuts or put the fees up more.


If the school in the above example with 700 pupils closes that's 700 pupils which need a place somewhere else. And 14m worth of VAT they don't get at all, unless they can get into another school.


This won't cause issues with the rich oversubscribed schools like Eton and Harrow but the smaller ones will certainly feel the impact. How much depends on how many people decide they can't afford the higher costs and how much support they get.


But it seems a bit idealistic to suggest they might be able to use the VAT to get extra teachers because where are these teachers going to come from?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I would have to ask why more pensioners who are complaining about this didn’t invest in private pensions?

Maybe they did, there was a massive amount of pension fraud and mis-selling in the 1990’s that would still impact many pensioners today.

Or perhaps they just couldn’t afford one.

Or their pension pots failed to yield a decent return because of Gordon Brown’s and Labours raid on pension pots.

Come to think of it, Labour has a track record for hating pensioners.

Given how the state pension is financed it's a good idea to assume you're unlikely to get it or it'll be much reduced by the time you reach retirement age if you're under 50 so I do operate on that basis with my finances.

If I get it then it's a bonus.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nffc

That will be the case for some schools and some parents but not all of them.

Plenty of kids in private schools are not from rich backgrounds but either on scholarships or bursaries or the parents just go without so that the kids can go to the schools.

It won't be the filthy rich kids who lose out, but those from less affluent backgrounds for whom 20% extra on fees would be too much and which the schools might not be able to help with, or might not be able to afford.

If you have parents who are paying 20k a year for the school place and there's about 100 kids in the year then each year (times 7 for a secondary school) makes the school £2 million a year, meaning overall fees coming in for this would be 14 million a year. Then you see that 20% VAT on top of those doesn't go to the school it goes to the Government so the school's income is the same. If let's say 10 kids in each year decide they can't afford it and have to drop out into a state school that's then 90 kids in 7 years so 12.6m income, which the school then loses 1.4m from its budget. Enough kids leaving means the school will have to make budget cuts or put the fees up more.

If the school in the above example with 700 pupils closes that's 700 pupils which need a place somewhere else. And 14m worth of VAT they don't get at all, unless they can get into another school.

This won't cause issues with the rich oversubscribed schools like Eton and Harrow but the smaller ones will certainly feel the impact. How much depends on how many people decide they can't afford the higher costs and how much support they get.

But it seems a bit idealistic to suggest they might be able to use the VAT to get extra teachers because where are these teachers going to come from?

Wait there while I get the world’s smallest violin out for parents trying to buy their kids privilege but can’t because of minor things like paying tax.

Maybe they could do without avocados etc.

The trend is for fees to far outstrip inflation.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7023056.html

There’s no public good here they can pony up like everyone else on everything else. “The market” can step in with cheaper provision if it’s commercially viable.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Damien

Given how the state pension is financed it's a good idea to assume you're unlikely to get it or it'll be much reduced by the time you reach retirement age if you're under 50 so I do operate on that basis with my finances.

If I get it then it's a bonus.

If you believe that then you should stop paying your NI contributions. Why should you fund current the ever increasing 'triple locked' pensioners but get nothing yourself? That money should be for you. A question the younger generation should ask themselves.