Russia has invaded Ukraine

[Mythica]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Don't generals have to obey orders though, whether they agree with them or not?

Let's hope they ignore protocol in the circumstances!

Like the beginning of the pandemic, I feel like i'm watching a film that i"m a part of. Disassociation I think it's called.

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Are passenger planes any use in dropping bombs? If so, they might seize them for this reason. (asuming they're Russian owned planes)?

No one has to obey anything. There might be consequences of not obeying, but there are also consequences of obeying. Those people would need to think very carefully which one they choose.

I wonder how long they can pay their army properly with these sanctions.

[Julian]

Kosovo asks for speedier NATO membership and a permanent US base

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Don't generals have to obey orders though, whether they agree with them or not?

In theory, but at the end of the day, they control the Army/Navy/Airforce, and they wont be in any hurry to get blown to pieces for Putin.
This is (one reason) why coups happen : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._coup_attempts

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

All that seized property in London in particular will help us get out of our financial woes a

no it won’t

There again it might push Putin to launch an attack on London where his troops aren't present.

No it won’t

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

You're right Chris, my anxiety levels are shooting up too.

Take a couple of tamazipan and go to bed.

[Gavin78]

I think there is too much news coverage on this that doesn't need to be, papers blowing it up about nuclear war, repeating the same stories over and over again. Sky news is bad for this. You'll see breaking news on the same article different picture and it looks like they have updated it from 3 hours before hand and nothing is new.

Social media is worse, Russia bots, people posting articles and vidoes not even associated to the event that is happening.

I try to stay away from it a lot of people can go stir crazy spending too much time following it.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mick

EU ban all Russian Jets, including private jets belonging to oligarchs from entering, taking off, flying over and landing anywhere within the EU. They have also banned Russia Today, Sputnik from broadcasting in their territories.

This is an excellent sanction, go after the oligarchs families to, stop them spending, stop them travelling, stop their kids going to fancy schools and that'll bite right at the heart of the inner circle

Originally Posted by Paul

The Ukrainian government has announced it is establishing an "international legion" for foreigners wishing to travel to the country to help fight against Russian invaders.

The Foreign Secretary has indicated the UK is not against Britons joining.

The foreign secretary is a clown, I was swept along with the idea till I actually thought about it, unless you're ex military or a gun nut what possible use are you going to be on the front line, you'll get yourself or others killed pointlessly, there's an argument for going if your a hgv driver or a medic but ordinary civilians would be better of staying at home, working and donating as much or little as the think appropriate to the Red Cross imho. If anyone does go they face the risk of bring classed a terrorist or falling foul of our anti mercenary laws, unlikely they'd prosecute admittedly but illegal never the less

Originally Posted by Damien

I wonder how long they can pay their army properly with these sanctions.

Russian soldiers will endure deprivations people wouldn't believe and they have done since the birth of their nation. That said the rouble has fallen 26% overnight and there are reports that cash points are running out of cash



Some other things that occurred to me or I heard are how united we as allies have all been, pretty much all singing the same tune throughout, hopefully makes China think twice about Taiwan, think I heard Von der Leyen say she wanted Ukraine to join the EU, can't see how that's helpful at this stage tbh

[RichardCoulter]

News on Radio 4 says that the fall in the rouble is now 45%.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

I know these are disturbing times but it would help you no end if you stay away from rolling news tonight and then talk through your worries face to face with someone you trust tomorrow.

Good advice

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Originally Posted by Pierre

Take a couple of tamazipan and go to bed.

Your response when compared to Chris's says it all

I am currently checking out and finding as many cute dog,cat and baby videos as I can. I have faith that the vast majority of the world will see common sense and support the path of unity against Putin’s shameful grab at Ukraine. I still keep wondering why Putin is doing this now. What’s changed for him? He’s the same age as me(we share the same birth date) and frankly doesn’t look 69 unlike me. Has he gone senile?Has he got a brain tumour? Why now?

Originally Posted by Maggy

I am currently checking out and finding as many cute dog,cat and baby videos as I can. I have faith that the vast majority of the world will see common sense and support the path of unity against Putin’s shameful grab at Ukraine. I still keep wondering why Putin is doing this now. What’s changed for him? He’s the same age as me(we share the same birth date) and frankly doesn’t look 69 unlike me. Has he gone senile?Has he got a brain tumour? Why now?

There’s a fair amount of analysis out there. Partly, he was always going to try something like this eventually. He’s a dyed-in-the-wool ethnic Russian nationalist and Kiev is surprisingly symbolic for such people because this is where the Russian Orthodox Church was originally founded. The ties between church and state have always been extremely strong in Russia, with the brief exception of its Soviet period.

Putin has an emperor complex and in order for him to feel he properly controls everything he is entitled to, the government in Kiev must be compliant. He tried to instal such a regime before but it was overthrown. Until now his efforts to rectify that have focused on nibbling around the edges of Ukraine. As to why he’s gone full Tonto now; well he is known to have been extremely paranoid about covid and is known to have kept everyone at arms length for 2 years now. It seems to have fed his general paranoia and now nobody can get close enough for long enough to talk him down. Only yes men can even get in the same room now. This is why making it painful for them is a key strategy. Putin isn’t going to change, but eventually the price of propping him up in his delusions will exceed the price of challenging him.

There was also an alternative outcome to this in Putin's head where Ukraine falls quickly, the West has a divided response and imposes weak sanctions and Putin secures Ukraine as a puppet state looking like a genius in doing so. Another Crimea.

The West was weak in Russia when he annexed Crimea and it was weak when he deployed a biological weapon on British soil. He probably didn't expect that this would be the line when the West has had enough and finally imposes biting sanctions. There is so much news that it's hard to keep up but Germany has abandoned decades of reticence about militarisation, Switzerland appears to be willing to abandon neutrality and sanction Russian bankers and the West has united to impose the biggest set of sanctions it's ever applied to Russia. A week ago people were saying Putin had sanction-proofed the Russian economy because of the foreign reserves he built up, so we just sanctioned them.

Most importantly Ukraine proved more resistance than I think anyone outside of Ukraine predicted. That has also been a reason the West has rallied around sensing that this time we can stop him.

The way the West has finally woken up and showed it's strength is one positive to take from all of this.

Originally Posted by Damien

There was also an alternative outcome to this in Putin's head where Ukraine falls quickly, the West has a divided response and imposes weak sanctions and Putin secures Ukraine as a puppet state looking like a genius in doing so. Another Crimea.

The West was weak in Russia when he annexed Crimea and it was weak when he deployed a biological weapon on British soil. He probably didn't expect that this would be the line when the West has had enough and finally imposes biting sanctions. There is so much news that it's hard to keep up but Germany has abandoned decades of reticence about militarisation, Switzerland appears to be willing to abandon neutrality and sanction Russian bankers and the West has united to impose the biggest set of sanctions it's ever applied to Russia. A week ago people were saying Putin had sanction-proofed the Russian economy because of the foreign reserves he built up, so we just sanctioned them.

Most importantly Ukraine proved more resistance than I think anyone outside of Ukraine predicted. That has also been a reason the West has rallied around sensing that this time we can stop him.

The way the West has finally woken up and showed it's strength is one positive to take from all of this.

The more I read, the more I discover that we’ve been arming and training the Ukrainian army for years now. We’ve had special forces in country for ages, and I hear talk of strategically hidden arms dumps designed to support the tactics the Ukrainians have deployed this past week, letting the Russian spearhead pass by and then taking out the supply lines behind them.

I’m beginning to think that this was long expected, long prepared for, and long hoped to be the line in the sand, and the open sharing of intel and weapons was offered as a final way out for Putin, who clearly had been planning this exact operation for many months. And I’m convinced we knew it too.

Even so, the leading nations of the western alliance can barely have hoped for such a massive, united response. Modern Germany finding itself capable of militaristic thinking is quite something. Khazakstan waking up to what being a Russian puppet state might feel like, and refusing to back Putin only months after relying on Russian force to put down an insurrection, is amazing.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

The foreign secretary is a clown, I was swept along with the idea till I actually thought about it, unless you're ex military or a gun nut what possible use are you going to be on the front line, you'll get yourself or others killed pointlessly, there's an argument for going if your a hgv driver or a medic but ordinary civilians would be better of staying at home, working and donating as much or little as the think appropriate to the Red Cross imho. If anyone does go they face the risk of bring classed a terrorist or falling foul of our anti mercenary laws, unlikely they'd prosecute admittedly but illegal never the less.

I agree. When I heard her speak, I thought that unless you had the skills they needed, spoke a relevant language and knew the country, you would be more of a liability than an asset to Ukraine.

Truss never comes across as Ministerial let alone Prime Ministerial in such pressurised situations. Her enthusiasm to tell people want they want to hear lets her down. The Defence Minister, Ben Wallace, has corrected her.

Mr Wallace was also asked about comments from Foreign Secretary Liz Truss, who told LBC on Sunday that she supported anyone who wanted to travel to Ukraine to help fight Russian forces.

He said that for those without military experience, there were "better ways" to help.

The defence secretary said his cabinet colleague was right that it was a "just cause", but he said: "If you're keen to help and you're a United Kingdom citizen, come and join our armed forces."

He continued: "Look, there are people who will go... I think what I would say is unless you are properly trained, unless you are a - you know - experienced member of an armed forces, I think there are better ways for you to contribute to the security of Ukraine."

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-i...-says-12553846

[tweetiepooh]

I thought that what our foreign secretary said in effect that we wouldn't stop people going rather that supporting then if they did. There will be Ukrainian born/related UK citizens who want to "go home" and that's very different from some "hard nuts" who just want to go.


Our church group has churches in Ukraine so we are praying for them and supporting as they want us to. One prayer that I have is that Ukrainians treat Russian prisoners and injured well. The more they can show that Russians do not need to fight to the death to avoid capture the better. Operation World shows Ukraine as 79% Christian, I pray that they behave like that.