Russia has invaded Ukraine

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Seems daft not to take a dividend. This will affect shareholders even more and help Russia by effectively giving them some money.

On the other hand, being seen to profit from the operations of a company so closely tied to the supply lines of the Russian military is morally indefensible. I wouldn’t worry too much about the profits going to Russians instead; with the sanctions now in place (especially the ones targeted by the US government against Russia’s dollar reserves) they are only ever going to get paid in increasingly worthless roubles anyway.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Pierre

There’s a lot of rich Russian and oligarchs that are seeing their fortunes dwindle. Expect an attempt on Putin’s life if this isn’t resolved soon.

All that seized property in London in particular will help us get out of our financial woes. There again it might push Putin to launch an attack on London where his troops aren't present.

On a lighter, yet very related, note…

The much-lauded President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, was previously a lawyer and a comedy actor - please see attached for one role he played (Ukrainian voice-over for the character).

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

All that seized property in London in particular will help us get out of our financial woes. There again it might push Putin to launch an attack on London where his troops aren't present.

Not very likely…

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

All that seized property in London in particular will help us get out of our financial woes. There again it might push Putin to launch an attack on London where his troops aren't present.

Richard … it will be so much better for your well-being if you can stop catastrophising. There is no way anyone is going to attack London. The doctrine of nuclear deterrence is the same today as it was throughout more than 40 years of Cold War. If he attacks a nuclear power he will get the same in return. There is no winning in such a scenario - it is entirely self-defeating. Which is the point. (M.A.D. stands for Mutually Assured Destruction, and also indicates the folly of heading down that path).

I know these are disturbing times but it would help you no end if you stay away from rolling news tonight and then talk through your worries face to face with someone you trust tomorrow.

[Mad Max]

Scary stuff, skip the ads.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojwVnJZxyho

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Hugh

One RAF and two USAF tankers doing racetracks at the moment - I would imagine quite a few drones will be getting refuelled (RAF from Akrotiri, USAF from Mildenhall).

They could seize their planes maybe?

In WWII we interned people from the enemy, I wonder if we'll start to intern Russian people who are here, given that this appears to be Putin and not his people?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Chris

Richard … it will be so much better for your well-being if you can stop catastrophising. There is no way anyone is going to attack London. The doctrine of nuclear deterrence is the same today as it was throughout more than 40 years of Cold War. If he attacks a nuclear power he will get the same in return. There is no winning in such a scenario - it is entirely self-defeating. Which is the point. (M.A.D. stands for Mutually Assured Destruction, and also indicates the folly of heading down that path).

I know these are disturbing times but it would help you no end if you stay away from rolling news tonight and then talk through your worries face to face with someone you trust tomorrow.

MAD also stands for Mad Vlad.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

They could seize their planes maybe?

In WWII we interned people from the enemy, I wonder if we'll start to intern Russian people who are here, given that this appears to be Putin and not his people?

We’re not at war with Russia for the same reason Russia isn’t going to attack London. The nuclear deterrent ensures it. Nobody is getting interned, and for your own peace of mind I really think you need to pull your mind out of this tailspin.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Chris

Richard … it will be so much better for your well-being if you can stop catastrophising. There is no way anyone is going to attack London. The doctrine of nuclear deterrence is the same today as it was throughout more than 40 years of Cold War. If he attacks a nuclear power he will get the same in return. There is no winning in such a scenario - it is entirely self-defeating. Which is the point. (M.A.D. stands for Mutually Assured Destruction, and also indicates the folly of heading down that path).

I know these are disturbing times but it would help you no end if you stay away from rolling news tonight and then talk through your worries face to face with someone you trust tomorrow.

You're right Chris, my anxiety levels are shooting up too. I usually have Radio 4 on overnight, which goes over to the World Service after it closes down for the night and they have replaced programmes with rolling news like you say.

My thinking was that this would not annoy China, would punish us for helping the Ukraine, not let us benefit from Russian property (there is a lot in London) and it wouldn't kill any of his troops.

He's probably more likely to do it to America though.

I take your point about MAD, but I think we are dealing with someone who has lost his mind.

I'm going to put Radio 4 Extra on before I lose mine! I'll just keep popping in here now and again to keep up to date with any developments.

My hope is that no matter how mad Putin gets if he were ever to actually give the order his generals would ignore it.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

They could seize their planes maybe?

In WWII we interned people from the enemy, I wonder if we'll start to intern Russian people who are here, given that this appears to be Putin and not his people?

The planes weren’t over Ukraine or Russia, so no…

Originally Posted by Damien

My hope is that no matter how mad Putin gets if he were ever to actually give the order his generals would ignore it.

The BBC reporter covering the nuclear readiness story this afternoon made a point of saying the generals receiving their stage-managed orders from Putin were visibly uncomfortable.

They’re not fools. This isn’t a Cuban missile crisis and the world is nowhere near the brink of nuclear destruction. For them to even contemplate obeying a launch order they would have to believe there was nothing left to lose. Even if Putin in his most fevered delusions comes to think that’s the case, his generals do not. The no-longer-quite-so-wealthy oligarchs surrounding Putin likewise do not. They are not Marxist-Leninist ideologues and they have vastly more to gain by making friends with the West so they can get all their lovely money back.

If Putin gets that far, or, I suspect, if it looks like he’s straying dangerously close to it, someone will see to it that he is taken out of the equation.

[RichardCoulter]

Don't generals have to obey orders though, whether they agree with them or not?

Let's hope they ignore protocol in the circumstances!

Like the beginning of the pandemic, I feel like i'm watching a film that i"m a part of. Disassociation I think it's called.

---------- Post added at 21:20 ---------- Previous post was at 21:17 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

The planes weren’t over Ukraine or Russia, so no…

Are passenger planes any use in dropping bombs? If so, they might seize them for this reason. (asuming they're Russian owned planes)?

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Don't generals have to obey orders though, whether they agree with them or not?

Let's hope they ignore protocol in the circumstances!

Like the beginning of the pandemic, I feel like i'm watching a film that i"m a part of. Disassociation I think it's called.

They’re supposed to. But also, they know the excuse of “only following orders” doesn’t apply to them. When they’re forced to confront the likely consequences of obeying an outrageous order, they may not obey at all. General Dietrich von Choltitz famously ignored a direct order from Hitler to burn Paris and blow up the Eiffel Tower when it became clear the Allies were going to recapture it.

In the absence of an existential threat to Russia, I do not believe the Russian army would knowingly bring nuclear destruction on itself by obeying an order to use nuclear weapons.