Calls to make black, asian and minority ethnic history compulsory

[Carth]

Does the national curriculum for history really need changing?

Are there many calls from teachers, school governors or education chiefs (of whatever race/colour/creed/religion) to alter it?

To be honest I haven't seen any, just Deeney (the excellent role model) trying to emulate Rashford.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Not the point, Ian. Islam is not tolerant of apostacy and other differences of culture. If they become the electoral majority in the UK, then you can be sure that the extremist types will take over and you know what that means.

Btw, I subscribe to the theory that Saudi Arabia is playing a very long religious game in Europe.

‘If" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there…

Wahhabism is 5% of Islam, and Muslims are 7% of the U.K. population - do the Maths…

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Carth

Does the national curriculum for history really need changing?

Are there many calls from teachers, school governors or education chiefs (of whatever race/colour/creed/religion) to alter it?

To be honest I haven't seen any, just Deeney (the excellent role model) trying to emulate Rashford.

Only if we believe that we want everyone to "integrate"…

To fully integrate, you have to believe that you are a part of something - if your part in history is ignored/overlooked, how can you be a a part of it?

We Anglo-Saxons don’t have to worry about "representation", because that’s the default view…

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Carth

Does the national curriculum for history really need changing?

It's always being changed - the question is when we change it what do we include that reflects those in our current society.

There is quite a bit of context and recent history of the history curriculum here - https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...iculum-england

[Carth]

For only 7% of the UK population, they've certainly got most of the media in a tail spin about what they can print

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

‘If" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there…

Wahhabism is 5% of Islam, and Muslims are 7% of the U.K. population - do the Maths…

No, you do the maths.

Like most major European countries, the United Kingdom has a significant Muslim population living within its borders. With the number of Muslims in Europe predicted to increase significantly in the near future, the UK's share of Muslims in the population could rise from 6.3 percent in 2016 to 17.2 percent by 2050. This can be partly attributed to the fact that the UK Muslim population is quite a young demographic, which is also true of the wider Muslim population of Europe.

https://www.statista.com/topics/4765...eader__wrapper

[BenMcr]

Even if that projection holds, 17.2% does not an electoral majority make, especially as 'Muslim' does not predict voting intentions, just 'Christian' doesn't.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Not the point, Ian. Islam is not tolerant of apostacy and other differences of culture. If they become the electoral majority in the UK, then you can be sure that the extremist types will take over and you know what that means.

Btw, I subscribe to the theory that Saudi Arabia is playing a very long religious game in Europe.

Sorry Seph, that really is the point. The point of this thread is that we do not want to talk honestly about the past and it is this past that is the direct cause of problem you are raising. If we hadn't invaded these lands, they wouldn't be here in the numbers you are complaining about. Mea culpa ..

I do agree, BTW, about the apostacy issue: a sinister belief found in the Wahhabi variant of Islam, mercifully not a mainstream movement here in the UK.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Even if that projection holds, 17.2% does not an electoral majority make, especially as 'Muslim' does not predict voting intentions, just 'Christian' doesn't.

Oh for God's sake. Do the projection; I've estimated a majority within 90 years. As to voting intentions, you are being naive.

There is a high take-up of the religion among children born to Muslim parents.

Family and home are where children learn to be Muslims. They are where the primary stage of socialisation takes place, in which they acquire and internalise cognitive and embodied knowledge, practices, skills, and traditions. This early stage of education may also be influenced by religious organisations and by minority-consciousness.

Muslims have in some respects been more successful than others in the UK at passing on their religious beliefs and practices from one generation to the next. Higher rates of intergenerational transmission have been found among Muslims than among Christians, those of other religions, and non-religious people.

Most Muslim children in the UK learn to read the Qur’an in Arabic, whether they do this at a daily mosque school, at the home of an independent teacher, in their own homes or even on Skype. In addition to the Qur’an and Arabic, many Muslim supplementary schools offer other aspects of Islamic Studies, as well as formal instruction in an ethnic language and culture.

https://crestresearch.ac.uk/resource...s-full-report/



---------- Post added at 23:13 ---------- Previous post was at 23:07 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Sorry Seph, that really is the point. The point of this thread is that we do not want to talk honestly about the past and it is this past that is the direct cause of problem you are raising. If we hadn't invaded these lands, they wouldn't be here in the numbers you are complaining about. Mea culpa ..

I do agree, BTW, about the apostacy issue: a sinister belief found in the Wahhabi variant of Islam, mercifully not a mainstream movement here in the UK.

Where is the evidence of that? I'm no spring chicken but from history, reading, etc as a child, I was well aware of the British Empire, its activities and its transformation into independence for the countries we governed. I learned that Britain was the leading European country in abolishing slavery.

BLM has brought all this into the forefront and that movement is a bad egg.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

There is a high take-up of the religion among children born to Muslim parents.

So you're against children learning their parents religion.

Better stop all the Sunday Schools and church affiliated schools then.

---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Where is the evidence of that? I'm no spring chicken but from history, reading, etc as a child, I was well aware of the British Empire, its activities and its transformation into independence for the countries we governed. I learned that Britain was the leading European country in abolishing slavery.

BLM has brought all this into the forefront and that movement is a bad egg.

And we're going around in circles now

Originally Posted by BenMcr

There is plenty of other history that is relevant Deeney's point that isn't about who did what slavery to whom.

Personally I think it's part of the issue that anytime it's suggested that we learn more about some of the related history, it keeps coming back to the same 'look over there' talking points.

[Sephiroth]

Ben said:

What about the cultures and history of the countries we invaded and the governed before we did so? What about their major historical figures that apparently are so vital to know about when it comes to UK history.

That history can be taught in the present countries concerned By your woke reasoning every country that has ever colonised territory (which were not countries at the time), including Greece, should bore everyone with the culture and history of said territories. We've enough history to keep us busy at school and elsewhere.

[Blackshep]

If the bad history isn't available how do so many know about it? of course because all the information is out there and not hard to find. My history curriculum in 1984 was China 1923 to 1949 and the British canal network I learnt most of my history because I read books including those with the bad bits such as Britain inventing concentration camps and the R.A.F using Indian villages to practise aerial bombing and a lot more besides.

If the history of other ethnic group's is to be taught then all of it must be taught such as the black and middle eastern people starting the slave trade, widow burning in India and the many massacres and genocides those groups carried out before they were colonised. That's not what modern liberals want they want to continue the evil imperialist white people narrative and their oppression and murder at the hands of said evil white people. How do we know that's the direction it will take simple because that's the direction it's been for the last couple of years.

Tearing down society while replacing it with nothing practical and capable of maintaining a society just woke homogeneous rubbish.

There is a high take-up of the religion among children born to Muslim parents.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

So you're against children learning their parents religion.

Thats one hell of a leap, would you please explain how you manage to draw that conclusion ?

Originally Posted by Carth

oh look, another thread that descends into the pit of racism

If people want to learn about the 'wider' UK history, there's Google to look at

Sadly if one uses the terms that fit one's own world view you can miss some very relevant links on Google.


---------- Post added at 08:20 ---------- Previous post was at 08:17 ----------

Originally Posted by Blackshep

If the bad history isn't available how do so many know about it? of course because all the information is out there and not hard to find. My history curriculum in 1984 was China 1923 to 1949 and the British canal network I learnt most of my history because I read books including those with the bad bits such as Britain inventing concentration camps and the R.A.F using Indian villages to practise aerial bombing and a lot more besides.

If the history of other ethnic group's is to be taught then all of it must be taught such as the black and middle eastern people starting the slave trade, widow burning in India and the many massacres and genocides those groups carried out before they were colonised. That's not what modern liberals want they want to continue the evil imperialist white people narrative and their oppression and murder at the hands of said evil white people. How do we know that's the direction it will take simple because that's the direction it's been for the last couple of years.

Tearing down society while replacing it with nothing practical and capable of maintaining a society just woke homogeneous rubbish.

It's available if you want to find it..it's wanting to find it that's the relevant part.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Paul

Thats one hell of a leap, would you please explain how you manage to draw that conclusion ?

The rest of the post and the preceding argument is that the country will end up with Muslim majority.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Oh for God's sake. Do the projection; I've estimated a majority within 90 years. As to voting intentions, you are being naive.

There is a high take-up of the religion among children born to Muslim parents.

The statement around take-up of faith in Muslim families and the linked website is to back up that claim.

However, unless you're singling out a specific religion for different treatment or restrictions, you either support parents teaching their religion to their children or you don't support it.

As the argument is that children learning Islam from their parents is a problem for the UK, then Sephiroth is arguing against all religious teaching of children.

---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 ----------

I am also aware and have unfortunately contributed to dragging this thread into yet another discussion specifically about Islam, which is unfortunate.

Islam is only a part of Black, Asian and minority history and the history of the UK, and any issues with the Muslim faith shouldn't override the wider points that the original letter raised to the Education Secretary.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

The rest of the post and the preceding argument is that the country will end up with Muslim majority.



The statement around take-up of faith in Muslim families and the linked website is to back up that claim.

However, unless you're singling out a specific religion for different treatment or restrictions, you either support parents teaching their religion to their children or you don't support it.

As the argument is that children learning Islam from their parents is a problem for the UK, then Sephiroth is arguing against all religious teaching of children.

---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 ----------

I am also aware and have unfortunately contributed to dragging this thread into yet another discussion specifically about Islam, which is unfortunate.

Islam is only a part of Black, Asian and minority history and the history of the UK, and any issues with the Muslim faith shouldn't override the wider points that the original letter raised to the Education Secretary.

The Judeo-Christian ethic/culture contrasts with with its Islam counterpart as everyone knows. I will remind you of 9/11, 7/7 and the various terrorist incident since, causing death in the name of Islam. I've not the slightest doubt that the majority of Muslims in the UK are a credit to society. But I put it to you, that if they become the electoral majority, Muslim candidates will be the majority in Parliament and then the extremists will take over.

However, unless you're singling out a specific religion for different treatment or restrictions, you either support parents teaching their religion to their children or you don't support it.

I don't give a monkey's. What I don't want is for the UK to become a Muslim or Muslim dominated state. This seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable position.