Calls to make black, asian and minority ethnic history compulsory

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by nomadking

How many examples are there about being taught about minor White British people?

Here's the page on the government website about the history curriculum, you can see for yourself what is expected to be taught - https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ammes-of-study

The slavery topic is just one example of where only one aspect is taught, ie the anti-White one. The full picture is never given.

You seem obsessed with slavery.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Paul

Is 'white' history compulsory ?
(Btw, when is White History Month ?)

Lots of other countries had Empires, I seem to recall a certain Italian based one invaded Britain, and took us as slaves ....

Still waiting for the apology from Italy ...

Yes white history is compulsory and white history month is every month because it's white people being learnt about, that notwithstanding I don't think this proposal is a good idea and may indeed cause more issues than it seeks to solve

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yes white history is compulsory and white history month is every month because it's white people being learnt about

It turns out all history is apparently compulsory, so the original request is pointless.

There is no official "White History Month" (and what about Brown, Yellow, Red or even Mixed history months ?).

Of course, there is also a gay month, and a womens month, but no straight month, or mens month.

.. and they wonder what continues to cause division

[mrmistoffelees]

perhaps the fact that there’s no mens history month is because historically women have been treated less equally than men and as such their achievements aren’t as widely known?

Originally Posted by Damien

Oh yeah! Lol sorry. Maybe there needs to be less history and more English lessons in schools.

“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Winston Churchill.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Paul

Is 'white' history compulsory ?
(Btw, when is White History Month ?)

Lots of other countries had Empires, I seem to recall a certain Italian based one invaded Britain, and took us as slaves ....

Still waiting for the apology from Italy ...

If you knew your history, you would know Italy isn't Rome, just like the UK isn't Wessex.

Originally Posted by ianch99

If you knew your history, you would know Italy isn't Rome, just like the UK isn't Wessex.

He didn’t say Italy = Rome. He said a “certain empire” was Italian-based, which it was. Italy was a distinct geographical entity at the time of Rome’s rising and became a privileged province of the empire. And Rome was based there.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

perhaps the fact that there’s no mens history month is because historically women have been treated less equally than men and as such their achievements aren’t as widely known?

I don't think the suffragettes were taught when I was at school, no doubt that would trigger people.

[nomadking]

Still haven't seen any examples from Troy Deeny of people who played a major part in UK history.
Strange that people keep complaining about the "racist" UK education system, when those from West Africa, Asian, and Chinese groups do well compared to Afro-Caribbean and even White British. The only group to perform worse than Afro-Caribbean children are those from Travellers groups, and they tend not to go to school in the first place. That proves that the problem isn't the education system, but the families themselves.

You can't compare the numbers of people from certain groups in certain jobs, if they're not achieving the required educational levels. You have to compare the %ages of those achieving any required educational levels and the desire to do a particular job, not the population levels.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Still haven't seen any examples from Troy Deeny of people who played a major part in UK history.
Strange that people keep complaining about the "racist" UK education system, when those from West Africa, Asian, and Chinese groups do well compared to Afro-Caribbean and even White British. The only group to perform worse than Afro-Caribbean children are those from Travellers groups, and they tend not to go to school in the first place. That proves that the problem isn't the education system, but the families themselves.

You can't compare the numbers of people from certain groups in certain jobs, if they're not achieving the required educational levels. You have to compare the %ages of those achieving any required educational levels and the desire to do a particular job, not the population levels.

That's suggesting that people from certain racial backgrounds are solely at fault for their own lack of attainment. Successful education is a two way street - pupils need to engage in the education system but also the education system needs to engage with pupils of all backgrounds.

We all had subjects we hated when we were at school. To an extent, you have to have a natural talent in any given subject but the subject itself needs to be interesting. I have been going through a number of GCSE syllabi with my youngest as she has been doing her options. Two subjects I hated at school, history and RE look really interesting now. History has gone away from kings and queens and their dates of reign to thematic areas (history of medicine, cold war and the rise of the nazis for example) Religious Studies as it is called now compares and contrasts different religions but 50% of the course is ethics and the role of religion in society.

Of course it might be that I am older with education being wasted on the young and all that but courses now seem so much more interesting than when I was at school.

The biggest tragedy in education is talented pupils slipping though the system. How many great minds have slipped through the cracks of the system? I am sure we all know people who are fiercely intelligent with little or no formal education to back that up

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by nomadking

How many examples are there about being taught about minor White British people?

Originally Posted by nomadking

Still haven't seen any examples from Troy Deeny of people who played a major part in UK history

Which is you want people to know about. Minor figures or Major ones?

In regards to Troy Deeny, one of the things he referenced as part of a wider group that can be part of the discussion (and not as the only mandated source), is an organisation called 'The Black Curriculium'

On their website they have resources such as the following:

'Crossword - People in British History'
'Crossword - Iconic Black British Women'
'The British Empire Experiences of African and Caribbean People - Information Cards'
'Free Remembrance Day Resource' (A lesson about black people who fought for Britain in World War 1)

Along with resources for historical figures including well known ones to most such as Mary Seacole, but others including:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Blanke

John Blanke (also rendered Blancke or Blak) (fl. 1501–1511) was a black musician in London in the early 16th century, who probably came to England as one of the African attendants of Catherine of Aragon in 1501. He is one of the earliest recorded black people in England after the Roman period.[1][2] His name may refer to his skin colour, derived either from the word "black" or possibly from the French word "blanc", meaning white.

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilian_Bader

Lilian Bader (18 February 1918 – 13 March 2015) was one of the first Black women to join the British armed forces

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Which is you want people to know about. Minor figures or Major ones?

In regards to Troy Deeny, one of the things he referenced as part of a wider group that can be part of the discussion (and as the only mandated source), is an organisation called 'The Black Curriculium'

They have resources such as the following:

'Crossword - People in British History'
'Crossword - Iconic Black British Women'
'The British Empire Experiences of African and Caribbean People - Information Cards'
'Free Remembrance Day Resource' (A lesson about black people who fought for Britain in World War 1)

So how many major non-white figures in UK history? The intent is to have teachings about non-white people who had a minor impact on UK history, therefore comparing it to the lack of white minor figures is valid.
The likes of Isambard Kingdom Brunel and Isaac Newton don't have a place in UK history simply because they were white, but because of the major things they achieved.


Your(added later] examples are still not MAJOR figures.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by nomadking

So how many major non-white figures in UK history? The intent is to have teachings about non-white people who had a minor impact on UK history, therefore comparing it to the lack of white minor figures is valid.
The likes of Isambard Kingdom Brunel and Isaac Newton don't have a place in UK history simply because they were white, but because of the major things they achieved.

I'd hope you're aware of the irony of what you're saying there, but I'm not sure that you are.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

That's suggesting that people from certain racial backgrounds are solely at fault for their own lack of attainment. Successful education is a two way street - pupils need to engage in the education system but also the education system needs to engage with pupils of all backgrounds.

We all had subjects we hated when we were at school. To an extent, you have to have a natural talent in any given subject but the subject itself needs to be interesting. I have been going through a number of GCSE syllabi with my youngest as she has been doing her options. Two subjects I hated at school, history and RE look really interesting now. History has gone away from kings and queens and their dates of reign to thematic areas (history of medicine, cold war and the rise of the nazis for example) Religious Studies as it is called now compares and contrasts different religions but 50% of the course is ethics and the role of religion in society.

Of course it might be that I am older with education being wasted on the young and all that but courses now seem so much more interesting than when I was at school.

The biggest tragedy in education is talented pupils slipping though the system. How many great minds have slipped through the cracks of the system? I am sure we all know people who are fiercely intelligent with little or no formal education to back that up

So teachers are distinguishing between West African and Afro-Caribbean children, and somehow giving the Afro-Caribbean children a worse education, all within the same class?


Subjects that are studied purely because they are interesting, tend to have little or limited use in the real world. Subjects which are of real use, tend to be a barrage of facts. No getting around that.

Originally Posted by nomadking

So how many major non-white figures in UK history? The intent is to have teachings about non-white people who had a minor impact on UK history, therefore comparing it to the lack of white minor figures is valid.
The likes of Isambard Kingdom Brunel and Isaac Newton don't have a place in UK history simply because they were white, but because of the major things they achieved.


Your(added later] examples are still not MAJOR figures.

Your reading of history is elitist and completely inadequate.

Brunel never built a railway or a viaduct by himself. He designed and managed but there are thousands of individual stories of ordinary labourers upon whose shoulders these great endeavours were actually built. Sometimes they gave their lives for it.

If our history never achieves more than to list the names of people with ideas then those who toiled to bring those ideas to life are ignored and our understanding of what really makes our society tick is doomed to be incomplete. Arguing over who is a major or a minor figure is a pointless exercise. We are all individuals with our parts to play and our contributions to make, and these are the places where British BAME history is most often found.

While it is right that we correct the whitewashing of iconic black figures in our history, to focus on this is actually to fall into the trap of believing history is essentially all about iconic individuals. BAME communities in Britain will never win that battle because the reality is, most of the iconic individuals (where iconic is understood in terms of significant leadership in warfare, engineering, banking or whatever) in our history are white, for all sorts of reasons, not all of them good.

A well-rounded understanding of our history lies not the reciting of names and dates, but in attempts to understand how ordinary people actually put in the grunt work to build and maintain and grow Britain to the place it is today. If we achieve that, then people of all backgrounds should be properly represented.