Black Lives Matter

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Can I borrow some money?

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Err .. what would they bypassing if they demolished it?

You must be rich beyond the dreams of avarice

Originally Posted by papa smurf

If one could make money from self righteous indignation there would be a couple of millionaires on these pages

Totally agree - all this fuss over one statue...

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY

So he inherited the wealth, that's not his fault. You can't pin the slavery on him. We are not responsible for the sins of our forefathers, and life goes on.

I feel the movement has been hijacked by these violent protesters. It's about police violence against black people in the US, not freaking statues.

That’s not what the U.K. BLM movement’s about, no matter how many times you say it...

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

That’s not what the U.K. BLM movement’s about, no matter how many times you say it...

How many people in the movement have degrees in "communications"?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Pierre

When are we going to destroy all the statues and memorials of Egyptian Pharoahs ?

I’m marching on the Sphinx tomorrow to burn it down.

How much do they earn each year in tourism dollars ofF the back Of the slaves that built the pyramids.......( it was aliens actually but ssh)

I'm a bit worried about the jolly Fisherman statue at skeggy

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Yes, some links here:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...6091E720100110
https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/4...laves%E2%80%99

The original post was tongue in cheek, anyway.

[off topic]Any one that claims to know how or why the pyramids were built is talking out their backside. We don't know why or how they were built and probably never will[/off topic]

now back to the BLM nonsense.

[tweetiepooh]

What about John Newton who was a slaver then became a Christian, was convicted of that trade and changed? He penned the hymn Amazing Grace, do we rip that out of the hymnal because it likely wouldn't have been written without his experience as a slaver?

Some of these slavers and owners of slaves made their wealth that way and then changed and left wealth to charities not as "penance" (can't buy you way into heaven) but to demonstrate that change or even just to benefit the community.

[Pierre]

Somebody get the ouija Board out so we can help this lady.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFNhFFSd1rw

[figgyburn]

https://www.indy100.com/article/fion...racist-9568041

Another loony lefty.Give it a rest.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We are not responsible for the sins of our forefathers

Admittedly I've not read much of this thread but here's something that often vexes me. To the best of my knowledge I've not displayed racial attitudes to anyone. True, the Indian woman I was with for 10 years, I cannot stand the very fabric of her being but that's for a number of reasons, none of which are anywhere connected to her race. In fact we have a mixed race son together but that's all going off the point I'm making.

This could be down to my own perception, I accept that's a possibility but recently it has felt as if I (and other whites) ought to feel some sort of shame or embarrassment etc due to the racist attitudes and actions of some of my forefathers who may (or may not, I don't know much about them) have been racist, kept slaves etc. All of which would be abhorrent behaviour but is not something I feel I ought to apologise for, or display shame etc.

It wasn't me, and had I been around in those days I cannot imagine myself treating another human so disgustingly purely based on their race.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Russ

my forefathers who may (or may not, I don't know much about them) have been racist, kept slaves etc. All of which would be abhorrent behaviour but is not something I feel I ought to apologise for, or display shame etc.

It wasn't me, and had I been around in those days I cannot imagine myself treating another human so disgustingly purely based on their race.

A point I made earlier in the thread and also my position on the matter.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Totally agree - all this fuss over one statue...

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That’s not what the U.K. BLM movement’s about, no matter how many times you say it...

My support is for the US BLM. The British version was meant to be about discrimination by British police.

The statue wreckers are the anarchists who are just looking for aggro.

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Originally Posted by Russ

Admittedly I've not read much of this thread but here's something that often vexes me. To the best of my knowledge I've not displayed racial attitudes to anyone. True, the Indian woman I was with for 10 years, I cannot stand the very fabric of her being but that's for a number of reasons, none of which are anywhere connected to her race. In fact we have a mixed race son together but that's all going off the point I'm making.

This could be down to my own perception, I accept that's a possibility but recently it has felt as if I (and other whites) ought to feel some sort of shame or embarrassment etc due to the racist attitudes and actions of some of my forefathers who may (or may not, I don't know much about them) have been racist, kept slaves etc. All of which would be abhorrent behaviour but is not something I feel I ought to apologise for, or display shame etc.

It wasn't me, and had I been around in those days I cannot imagine myself treating another human so disgustingly purely based on their race.

I agree, Russ. I think people are running out of ideas on what to protest about! It's all getting rather tiresome.

Originally Posted by Russ

This could be down to my own perception, I accept that's a possibility but recently it has felt as if I (and other whites) ought to feel some sort of shame or embarrassment etc due to the racist attitudes and actions of some of my forefathers who may (or may not, I don't know much about them) have been racist, kept slaves etc. All of which would be abhorrent behaviour but is not something I feel I ought to apologise for, or display shame etc.

It isn't about feeling personal shame but rather a recognition it happened. The main argument activists have isn't that white people should feel guilty but to have a greater understanding that it happened, that is was really bad and that consequences of racism linger.

Even over this statue debate there is a lot of 'he did some good things, he did some bad things' but that seems to underplay just how bad those things where. It does still seem like we're resistant to properly confront that part of British history, handwaving it away.

Originally Posted by Russ

It wasn't me, and had I been around in those days I cannot imagine myself treating another human so disgustingly purely based on their race.

You probably would. As I probably would. As most people would have and did. You are conditioned by the society that you grew up in. Few people are ever actively railing against what is considered normal at any one time in history. Even in the last 100-150 years there was a time when it was only a small minority who argued women should have the vote, or that homosexuality should be legal and within our lifetime it was a majority opinion that gay marriage should be illegal.

The interesting thing with that thought is what do we consider acceptable now that we won't in 50, 100, 200 years?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

It isn't about feeling personal shame but rather a recognition it happened. The main argument activists have isn't that white people should feel guilty but to have a greater understanding that it happened, that is was really bad and that consequences of racism linger.

Even over this statue debate there is a lot of 'he did some good things, he did some bad things' but that seems to underplay just how bad those things where. It does still seem like we're resistant to properly confront that part of British history, handwaving it away.

Are you honestly saying that people didn't know there was slavery all those years ago? I certainly did, and I dare say you did, too. It is no secret, it is in the past, and it has not directly affected any living person.

The big thing now that we should be concentrating on is ironing out the inequalities, which 50 years on from the Race Discrimination Act, still persist today.

The concentration on slavery and choice of words people use are little more than devices to change the subject. There is no excuse for treating black people differently for no good reason and people need to learn that. However, given the attitude of some people towards race equality legislation ("Why are they getting more privileges than me?") and Black Lives Matter ("All lives matter"), perhaps we need to ditch existing legislation for all groups and simply have equality legislation that applies to everyone. People might get it then.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

perhaps we need to ditch existing legislation for all groups and simply have equality legislation that applies to everyone. People might get it then.

The US have supposedly had that since 1964 - not sure it's really worked out that way though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88–352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) is a landmark civil rights and labor law in the United States that outlaws discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex,[a] or national origin.[4]

[ianch99]

I think that people being more interested in getting angry about statues rather than the wider issue of racism itself sort of validates the whole debate.

From my point of view, the damage to Colston statue was, on balance, merited. The others are not ..