Black Lives Matter

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

As slavery was abolished in 1833, there are no peers who have 'made' their money through slavery. They are old, yes, but not that old!

That is under the assumption that each generation of Peers starts of afresh, not using the money from the generations before...

<narrator>"that doesn't happen"

Originally Posted by ianch99

I quite agree. The Guardian thing is another desperate attempt to divert discussion.

It is not what the Guardian said 150 years ago, it is what is says today that matters. In contrast, Colston is the same vile human being today as he was all those years ago.

Wow, you're two faced logic is just unbelieveable.
The founder of the Guardian is also the same human being he was back then.
By following your logic, either the statue should have been left alone, or the Guardian closed.

Btw, the "vile" human being also did a lot of good on his death.

On his death in 1721, he bequeathed his wealth to charities and his legacy can still be seen on Bristol's streets, memorials and buildings.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

That is under the assumption that each generation of Peers starts of afresh, not using the money from the generations before...

<narrator>"that doesn't happen"

In which case, they've inherited it, not made it.

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

Wow, you're two faced logic is just unbelieveable.
The founder of the Guardian is also the same human being he was back then.
By following your logic, either the statue should have been left alone, or the Guardian closed.

Btw, the "vile" human being also did a lot of good on his death.

And that's why the statue is there. It's nowt to do with slavery.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

In which case, they've inherited it, not made it.

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------


[/B]
And that's why the statue is there. It's nowt to do with slavery.

And used the inheritance to create more wealth - without the starting point, they would not have the wealth they now earn.


Not far from me - Harewood House

The ground that Harewood House was built on was bought by Henry Lascelles in 1738, using money from the West Indian sugar trade. The money came from owning plantations, slaves, ships and warehouses, a fact that was pervasive throughout British society at the time, with many of the great institutions; the Church, banks, artistic and educational establishments – either created or greatly enhanced during that period.

Henry was involved in every aspect of the sugar trade, which might now be called vertical integration and however abhorrent the nature of his business, he was a very astute businessman, who became one of the richest men in England.

Originally Posted by Paul

Btw, the "vile" human being also did a lot of good on his death.

On the other hand that was with money largely made from slavery. You shouldn't get to be remembered as a good person because some of the money you used by transporting, selling and killing human beings is given to charity. His company used to brand slaves with a hot iron so that they were clearly 'theirs' and thousands of them died in transportation. The statue effectively ignores that because the money went to Bristol.

[Pierre]

When are we going to destroy all the statues and memorials of Egyptian Pharoahs ?

I’m marching on the Sphinx tomorrow to burn it down.

How much do they earn each year in tourism dollars ofF the back Of the slaves that built the pyramids.......( it was aliens actually but ssh)

Originally Posted by Damien

You shouldn't get to be remembered as a good person because some of the money you used by transporting, selling and killing human beings is given to charity.

The fact remains that he did what he did, and a lot of people have benefited from it. The statue was not erected to celebrate his evil deeds, nor were schools and streets so named. I would venture that very few people with statues have zero skeletons in their closet. History is what it is.

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

I’m marching on the Sphinx tomorrow to burn it down.

There are, I believe, reports (or theories) that slaves were not in fact used to build it or the pyramids, either way, good luck burning down solid stone, it will take some doing.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Paul

Wow, you're two faced logic is just unbelieveable.
The founder of the Guardian is also the same human being he was back then.
By following your logic, either the statue should have been left alone, or the Guardian closed.

Btw, the "vile" human being also did a lot of good on his death.

Oh dear ..

So, I see .. it is ok to traffic in human cargo, killing many, as long as you make lots of money and give some of it away. Got it ..

---------- Post added at 22:20 ---------- Previous post was at 22:18 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

That is under the assumption that each generation of Peers starts of afresh, not using the money from the generations before...

<narrator>"that doesn't happen"

It is clear OB knew that .. he was just making mischief

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Pierre

When are we going to destroy all the statues and memorials of Egyptian Pharoahs ?

I’m marching on the Sphinx tomorrow to burn it down.

How much do they earn each year in tourism dollars ofF the back Of the slaves that built the pyramids.......( it was aliens actually but ssh)

Closer to home what about the rubble strewn across Salisbury Plain.

They should demolish it and use the gravel to build the badly needed by-pass.

Originally Posted by Paul

The fact remains that he did what he did, and a lot of people have benefited from it. The statue was not erected to celebrate his evil deeds, nor were schools and streets so named. I would venture that very few people with statues have zero skeletons in their closet. History is what it is.[

It wasn't erected to celebrate his evil deeds but the good deeds he did do were funded by that slavery.

I think that's different to someone who's good deeds are unconnected to why there are honoured. George Washington owned slaves, but the Washington Monument exists to honour him as a Founding Father, Leader of the Patriot Army and the first US President.

So that's where I think a key difference lies, especially since all historical figures will likely be tainted by the period of the history they lived in. The question we should ask is what did they do and did the good outweigh the bad? Churchill? Absolutely yes, the good outweighs the bad.

Does Colston's charity outweigh slavery? I don't think so.

But going back to what I said many pages ago, and to reference Pierre's point about the pyramids, maybe the better thing to do is put new information up saying where the money that built those buildings in Bristol came from.

This is who Colston is, this is what he did with the money and this is where that money came from kind of a thing.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Paul

There are, I believe, reports (or theories) that slaves were not in fact used to build it or the pyramids, either way, good luck burning down solid stone, it will take some doing.

Yes, some links here:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...6091E720100110
https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/4...laves%E2%80%99

[downquark1]

The pyramids are a bad example but there are others that can be used across history. Romans, Ottermans, mongolian structures.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And used the inheritance to create more wealth - without the starting point, they would not have the wealth they now earn.


Not far from me - Harewood House

So he inherited the wealth, that's not his fault. You can't pin the slavery on him. We are not responsible for the sins of our forefathers, and life goes on.

I feel the movement has been hijacked by these violent protesters. It's about police violence against black people in the US, not freaking statues.

[papa smurf]

If one could make money from self righteous indignation there would be a couple of millionaires on these pages

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

If one could make money from self righteous indignation there would be a couple of millionaires on these pages

Can I borrow some money?

---------- Post added at 08:54 ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 ----------

Originally Posted by Julian

Closer to home what about the rubble strewn across Salisbury Plain.

They should demolish it and use the gravel to build the badly needed by-pass.

Err .. what would they bypassing if they demolished it?