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Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
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Old 05-06-2020, 14:55   #736
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by cheekyangus View Post
I know. However, not everyone has internet, let alone decent enough internet.

And even in properties with good enough internet, there can be problems with distribution within them. You can usually get TV signals in places with problem wifi. Powerline plugs don't work everywhere.
I agree, but the government has a programme for internet access to be delivered throughout the country. I do not see any big change before that is completed.

---------- Post added at 13:55 ---------- Previous post was at 13:51 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
As someone who visits a lot of elderly people's home for work, I can say

A) there are a lot of old people
B) at least 50% of those rely on standard linear TV programs
C) many have no access to broadband in their homes

I think this is because of the high cost of cable/satellite and broadband

These are 3 reasons why linear TV will continue for a long time yet.
So, already, about 50% are using VOD. That is very encoraging - I thought it would be lower than that as this stage.

Yes, access to the internet must be vastly improved before any transmitter signals are ceased. We are probably a decade away from that situation, but it could come quicker if the internet companies pull their fingers out.
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Old 05-06-2020, 15:10   #737
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I agree, but the government has a programme for internet access to be delivered throughout the country. I do not see any big change before that is completed.

---------- Post added at 13:55 ---------- Previous post was at 13:51 ----------



So, already, about 50% are using VOD. That is very encoraging - I thought it would be lower than that as this stage.

Yes, access to the internet must be vastly improved before any transmitter signals are ceased. We are probably a decade away from that situation, but it could come quicker if the internet companies pull their fingers out.
You are missing the point, it doesn't matter that broadband speeds are to be increased across the country - if you cannot afford what is currently on offer how are you going to afford a higher speed which will come at a higher cost?

This is not going to change in the next 20-30 years unless broadband is treated as a right similar to water. Or are you expecting super fast broadband to be free to all?

I said at least 50% pensioners are only using linear TV - as I didn't want to put a figure on it and have the likes of you dispute it.

Doesn't equate to 50% using VOD which you are surprised at by your own admission. Please don't twist my words to suit your argument.
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Old 05-06-2020, 15:35   #738
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
You are missing the point, it doesn't matter that broadband speeds are to be increased across the country - if you cannot afford what is currently on offer how are you going to afford a higher speed which will come at a higher cost?

This is not going to change in the next 20-30 years unless broadband is treated as a right similar to water. Or are you expecting super fast broadband to be free to all?

I said at least 50% pensioners are only using linear TV - as I didn't want to put a figure on it and have the likes of you dispute it.

Doesn't equate to 50% using VOD which you are surprised at by your own admission. Please don't twist my words to suit your argument.
My thoughts on this are that when BB becomes available to every household we may well see the likes of pensioners, and people on low incomes, being given discounts or maybe even free to those who cannot afford it.
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Old 05-06-2020, 15:46   #739
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
My thoughts on this are that when BB becomes available to every household we may well see the likes of pensioners, and people on low incomes, being given discounts or maybe even free to those who cannot afford it.

Really?

As someone on a below average wage and soon to be retired, I sincerely hope you are correct - however I cannot see this happening in the foreseeable future, nice as it would be.

Do you think the same might apply to gas & electric, which after all are basic essentials?
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Old 05-06-2020, 16:20   #740
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
Really?

As someone on a below average wage and soon to be retired, I sincerely hope you are correct - however I cannot see this happening in the foreseeable future, nice as it would be.

Do you think the same might apply to gas & electric, which after all are basic essentials?
I certainly think that it's a possibility that pensioners and/or those on low incomes might receive help with obtaining broadband.

Being able to switch off terrestrial signals would save far more than this one off subsidy and help was actually offered to these groups without digital television when analogue TV was switched off.

If they decide not to go down this route, I think that they will probably switch off all Freeview signals apart from the PSB channels.

Depending on their supplier, those deemed to be on low incomes (usually those in receipt of means tested benefits) receive a discount on their gas/electric through the Warm Home Discount Scheme:

https://www.gov.uk/the-warm-home-discount-scheme

More info. on other help here:

https://www.ukpower.co.uk/home_energ...bled-customers

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 05-06-2020 at 16:25. Reason: Added links.
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Old 05-06-2020, 16:32   #741
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
Really?

As someone on a below average wage and soon to be retired, I sincerely hope you are correct - however I cannot see this happening in the foreseeable future, nice as it would be.

Do you think the same might apply to gas & electric, which after all are basic essentials?
As Richard said there are already discounts for people on low incomes and the elderly for heating etc, my point about the BB is the same really...
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Old 05-06-2020, 17:20   #742
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
As Richard said there are already discounts for people on low incomes and the elderly for heating etc, my point about the BB is the same really...

Yes, you can get help with electric and gas bills but your income needs to be well below a living wage to get them.

As for broadband, it is an on-going monthly cost not a one-off as suggested.

I cannot see any government paying for high speed broadband for all on a long term basis.
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Old 05-06-2020, 19:21   #743
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
Yes, you can get help with electric and gas bills but your income needs to be well below a living wage to get them.

As for broadband, it is an on-going monthly cost not a one-off as suggested.

I cannot see any government paying for high speed broadband for all on a long term basis.
I meant for installation, not ongoing costs. I too doubt that the Government would pay for that. Maybe the poorer members of society will get a subsidy like gas/electric or a no frills cheap option will be offered like some companies already do for phone (for essential calls) and broadband??

If poorer pensioners are still able to get a free TVL (or the TVL no longer exists by the time DTT is switched off), it may be suggested that this offsets some or all of the cost of their broadband??
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Old 05-06-2020, 21:28   #744
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
I meant for installation, not ongoing costs. I too doubt that the Government would pay for that. Maybe the poorer members of society will get a subsidy like gas/electric or a no frills cheap option will be offered like some companies already do for phone (for essential calls) and broadband??

If poorer pensioners are still able to get a free TVL (or the TVL no longer exists by the time DTT is switched off), it may be suggested that this offsets some or all of the cost of their broadband??


Installation is a minor problem compared with £30-40pm for a reasonable speed broadband.

Most pensioners cannot afford that - I know when I retire my wife will be pushing me to cut the amount I spend on TV, which of course is ironic as I will have a lot more time to watch it.
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Old 05-06-2020, 21:50   #745
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

The fragmentation of provision of content is just getting silly, even if people are able to afford the multiple subscriptions involved.
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Old 05-06-2020, 22:02   #746
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
Installation is a minor problem compared with £30-40pm for a reasonable speed broadband.

Most pensioners cannot afford that - I know when I retire my wife will be pushing me to cut the amount I spend on TV, which of course is ironic as I will have a lot more time to watch it.
Actually, after looking further at the BT basic plan, you do have a point:

https://btplc.com/inclusion/Products...band/index.htm

It's only £10.07 a month, but only covers enough BB to stream one film a month, so not much use to the average person!

When you retire, these deals might be of some use to you:

https://www.broadbandchoices.co.uk/g...nd-for-elderly

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 05-06-2020 at 22:07. Reason: Added link.
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Old 06-06-2020, 10:00   #747
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
You are missing the point, it doesn't matter that broadband speeds are to be increased across the country - if you cannot afford what is currently on offer how are you going to afford a higher speed which will come at a higher cost?

This is not going to change in the next 20-30 years unless broadband is treated as a right similar to water. Or are you expecting super fast broadband to be free to all?

I said at least 50% pensioners are only using linear TV - as I didn't want to put a figure on it and have the likes of you dispute it.

Doesn't equate to 50% using VOD which you are surprised at by your own admission. Please don't twist my words to suit your argument.
I really wasn't - I assumed you knew what you were talking about when you used the 50% figure, which was certainly news to me.

I haven't twisted anything.

You said at least 50% of pensioners ars using only linear TV. Well, what other kind of TV is there then? If at least 50% are still on linear, then it follows that up to 50% also use VOD. How is that twisting anything? It is simply the other side of your own equation.

On your first points, only the more affluent were able to afford to have a telephone back in the 1960s. However, by the 1980s, practically everyone had one.

Similarly, I expect that practically everyone will have access to broadband in time. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that a future government might pay for basic broadband speeds for the pensioners, just as they have been paying for the over 75s for their TV licences. Broadband will be considered an essential thing for every household to have before much longer.

---------- Post added at 08:54 ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
My thoughts on this are that when BB becomes available to every household we may well see the likes of pensioners, and people on low incomes, being given discounts or maybe even free to those who cannot afford it.
Agreed, Max. Anyone without broadband in the future will be invisible and practically unable to function in our increasingly digital world.

---------- Post added at 08:56 ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
Really?

As someone on a below average wage and soon to be retired, I sincerely hope you are correct - however I cannot see this happening in the foreseeable future, nice as it would be.

Do you think the same might apply to gas & electric, which after all are basic essentials?
But, with your pensionable status looming, are you seriously thinking of giving up your broadband? Of course not. Any government handouts, if they come, will be based on need, or it would cost a fortune.

---------- Post added at 08:58 ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 View Post
Yes, you can get help with electric and gas bills but your income needs to be well below a living wage to get them.

As for broadband, it is an on-going monthly cost not a one-off as suggested.

I cannot see any government paying for high speed broadband for all on a long term basis.
Any subsidy would be likely to be based on basic broadband for streamingt, not high speed broadband, surely.

---------- Post added at 09:00 ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
The fragmentation of provision of content is just getting silly, even if people are able to afford the multiple subscriptions involved.
Except that you only need one subscription at a time. And you can change to a different provider whenever you like. Cheaper than the licence fee.

Last edited by OLD BOY; 06-06-2020 at 10:05.
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Old 06-06-2020, 10:15   #748
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

I read the 50% standard linear TV programs as Freeview/Digital TV programs (BBC, ITV, etc,) - that is what my mum- in-law watches. I surmised the other 50% as a mixture of Cable, Sky, & streaming services such as Prime & Netflix.

You thought of the other 50% as VOD - in both cases, confirmation bias appears to be in play (in my case, informed by various seniors that I know viewing habits).

Re the "one subscription at a time" - do you really believe that people will want to be switching all the time, a couple of times a month?
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Old 06-06-2020, 13:08   #749
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
I read the 50% standard linear TV programs as Freeview/Digital TV programs (BBC, ITV, etc,) - that is what my mum- in-law watches. I surmised the other 50% as a mixture of Cable, Sky, & streaming services such as Prime & Netflix.

You thought of the other 50% as VOD - in both cases, confirmation bias appears to be in play (in my case, informed by various seniors that I know viewing habits).

Re the "one subscription at a time" - do you really believe that people will want to be switching all the time, a couple of times a month?

Exactly.

OB has always had the idea that people will be forever changing their subscription.

It would be interesting how often people change their satellite/cable subscription - this would give a reasonable indication of people's likely habits in this respect.


And to reply to OB - all outgoing a need to be reviewed, which certainly includes broadband.

My current BB usage is limited to email and browsing the Internet - I can do that on my smartphone so why would I need BB at all, don't really need it now apart from enabling me to watch sport on Sky/BT sports

Last edited by Raider999; 06-06-2020 at 13:11.
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Old 06-06-2020, 13:28   #750
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Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I really wasn't - I assumed you knew what you were talking about when you used the 50% figure, which was certainly news to me.

I haven't twisted anything.

You said at least 50% of pensioners ars using only linear TV. Well, what other kind of TV is there then? If at least 50% are still on linear, then it follows that up to 50% also use VOD. How is that twisting anything? It is simply the other side of your own equation.

On your first points, only the more affluent were able to afford to have a telephone back in the 1960s. However, by the 1980s, practically everyone had one.

Similarly, I expect that practically everyone will have access to broadband in time. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that a future government might pay for basic broadband speeds for the pensioners, just as they have been paying for the over 75s for their TV licences. Broadband will be considered an essential thing for every household to have before much longer.

---------- Post added at 08:54 ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 ----------



Agreed, Max. Anyone without broadband in the future will be invisible and practically unable to function in our increasingly digital world.

---------- Post added at 08:56 ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 ----------



But, with your pensionable status looming, are you seriously thinking of giving up your broadband? Of course not. Any government handouts, if they come, will be based on need, or it would cost a fortune.

---------- Post added at 08:58 ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 ----------



Any subsidy would be likely to be based on basic broadband for streamingt, not high speed broadband, surely.

---------- Post added at 09:00 ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 ----------



Except that you only need one subscription at a time. And you can change to a different provider whenever you like. Cheaper than the licence fee.
Netflix, Amazon Prime, Now TV, Apple TV, ITV Hub+, Britbox, All4(no ads), Acorn TV, Disney+, and others. They are the content providers. Not much in the way of interchangeability there.
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