Brexit (Old)

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Dave42

Major Brexit donor Arron Banks denies cash came from Russia - and changes mind about leaving EU

https://news.sky.com/story/major-bre...emain-11544655

That's not what he meant, if you read the whole thing or actually saw the interview, it was said in the context of the UK political establishment/ elite as being as corrupt as the EU institutions we are leaving.

Also, and as I have always maintained, the way brexit is being managed/negotiated. We we'll end up with some half arsed fudge, half in half out, in which case, what was the point. So if he thought it would end like this, he may not bothered in the first place.

That's how I interpreted it.

It's not that he doesn't still believe in brexit, but he doesn't believe the government can deliver it. He's probably right.

The only way we could have delivered brexit from a position of strength would have been to trigger article 50 the day after the referendum result, and just left.

and then renegotiated with the EU from outside of the EU.

Yes it would have been painful to start with, but not the death by a thousand cuts we've suffered since.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Nothing in there about the army being used to quash civil unrest.

There appears to be the conflating of two separate points to arrive at an unsubstantiated conclusion.





As I quoted previously, in less inflammatory versions of this story, the military would be called upon for transport and supply duties - no one (to the best of my knowledge) has shown any evidence that military personnel would be involved in riot control.

It’s an old tabloid trick - put two separate things close together, and hope readers will be fooled into thinking they are linked, thus stoking outrage/upset/whatever...

You could well be right, but if we do end up in a situation where there is civil unrest or riots, I doubt that the police and military will sit back and do nothing.

I have seen the way that some of the police behave in demonstrations in my younger days too, I can't speak for the military.

---------- Post added at 13:45 ---------- Previous post was at 13:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Truely impartial news is becoming more difficult to find. People just want news they like to hear. Whether it's true or not seems to be an after thought.

True. People often post links to confirm what they are saying, but whose to say they are true? Similarly, the absence of a link doesn't mean that the information isn't true!

[Carth]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

. . . if we do end up in a situation where there is civil unrest or riots, I doubt that the police and military will sit back and do nothing.

oh I don't know about that Richard. Can you remember the riots of 2011 (Mark Duggan death I think)?

Police & fire services were swamped and, if I recall correctly, ended up just trying to collate evidence for future prosecutions while allowing the frenzy to die out . . and there were more police back then

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

You could well be right, but if we do end up in a situation where there is civil unrest or riots, I doubt that the police and military will sit back and do nothing.

I have seen the way that some of the police behave in demonstrations in my younger days too, I can't speak for the military.

---------- Post added at 13:45 ---------- Previous post was at 13:43 ----------



True. People often post links to confirm what they are saying, but whose to say they are true? Similarly, the absence of a link doesn't mean that the information isn't true!

Well, I can, and it's very unlikely...

But the absence of a link means there is no way of confirming/denying any validity, and expecting people to take a statement on "faith" - it's only polite to support a premise/statement with some information, otherwise we will end up with opinion being equated with fact. People are entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts - it's either factual or not. That's the challenge with so-called "balance" on some news programme - if someone with decades of experience, practical and theoretical, in a field of knowledge goes on, they feel the need to contrast with someone not equally qualified, but just have an opposing opinion.

If one of the viewpoints on a heart-related health issue are from a consultant cardiologist, it is not ‘balance’ for another to be from a Mayan priest who sacrifices people and rips their heart out of their still living body. Whilst both sides can say they have experience of heart-related matters, only one is really knowledgeable in how to keep the patient alive...

[1andrew1]

Brexit latest: Fresh turmoil for Theresa May as EU leaders warn they will not give in to Brexiteers' demands in Irish border row
Ireland’s foreign minister Simon Coveney insisted Dublin would not agree to calls from Tory Right-wingers for any backstop deal, aimed at avoiding a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland, to be time-limited.
He also stressed that the UK would not be allowed to pull out of it unilaterally. Mr Coveney was swiftly backed by the EU’s deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand, who tweeted: “Still necessary to repeat this, it seems.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3980746.html

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3980746.html

Dublin is being very short sighted about this. If there's no deal, apparently it's a hard border. How long before that sinks in?

[Pierre]

Just make it stop. Just leave with no deal and take it from there.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Just make it stop. Just leave with no deal and take it from there.

It's still possible, and the government may yet be forced into that position, although how the DUP will react will be interesting.

I hope we've got that draft trade deal ready!

[RichardCoulter]

There is a programme on Channel 4 at 8pm tonight called 'What the Nation Really Thinks'.

Channel 4 have commissioned the largest independent survey of attitudes across the UK since the Brexit referendum; the findings of which will be discussed with a panel and audience.

Should be interesting to see what the public think.

[Pierre]

Any fool can see, that the Border Issue is the Alter on which the EU will see Brexit sacrificed on.

According to them the only way to prevent a "hard border" is to stay in the Customs Union. UK wont have the UK split, ergo the only way is for the UK to stay I the Customs Union. If the UK stays in the Customs Union it hasn't left the EU.

Job done EU.

We should leave the EU, and an innovative solution to the N.I. border would be found quickly. because it would have to be. But we should do it from outside of the EU that way we can be sure we have left.

---------- Post added at 18:30 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Should be interesting to see what the public think.

As long as it is what the nation thinks and not what Channel 4 thinks the nation thinks!

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Any fool can see, that the Border Issue is the Alter on which the EU will see Brexit sacrificed on.

According to them the only way to prevent a "hard border" is to stay in the Customs Union. UK wont have the UK split, ergo the only way is for the UK to stay I the Customs Union. If the UK stays in the Customs Union it hasn't left the EU.

Job done EU.

We should leave the EU, and an innovative solution to the N.I. border would be found quickly. because it would have to be. But we should do it from outside of the EU that way we can be sure we have left.

I'm inclined to agree, although personally I would be surprised if the EU pushed it that far. Let's hope Theresa May doesn't blink first.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

There is a programme on Channel 4 at 8pm tonight called 'What the Nation Really Thinks'.

Channel 4 have commissioned the largest independent survey of attitudes across the UK since the Brexit referendum; the findings of which will be discussed with a panel and audience.

Should be interesting to see what the public think.

Wonder what result ch4 have paid the "independent" surveyors to arrive at?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

Wonder what result ch4 have paid the "independent" surveyors to arrive at?

Watch it before commenting on it as you might be surprised.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3980746.html

I told you all - the perfidious Irish PM Varadkar and the awful hegemonist EU wish to stick it to the UK and confound Brexit.

The time has come to tell the EU enough is enough. If they persist with this unhelpful line, there will be no deal and Ireland will face the full force of customs controls for its goods to the UK. Let the Irish economy feel threatened.

We really must break free from EU control.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by denphone

Watch it before commenting on it as you might be surprised.

Strangely defensive, I don't think he's got anything to worry about.