Brexit (Old)

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by denphone

Here are some facts around around Brexit and impact of EU membership from Ipsos MORI so there is plenty to debate there.

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-...-eu-membership

A sample of 2200 people?

Pointless.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Carth

Complacency mate, even the Government were guilty of it. They thought it would never happen.

I'm willing to stick my neck out and suggest most of those on protest marches are the ones who couldn't be arsed and now feel stupid

They looked stupid, still it was a nice day out with the kids and the bus was free.

[Julian]

Originally Posted by denphone

Here are some facts around around Brexit and impact of EU membership from Ipsos MORI so there is plenty to debate there.

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-...-eu-membership

Quite a few of the 2206 people interviewed didn't answer some questions correctly.........FACT.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Carth
Complacency mate, even the Government were guilty of it. They thought it would never happen.

I'm willing to stick my neck out and suggest most of those on protest marches are the ones who couldn't be arsed and now feel stupid

Originally Posted by ianch99

Wrong as usual

nice reply, reminds me of that Matilda film

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

A sample of 2200 people?

Pointless.

Come on Pierre, don't be a flat-earther! Ipsos MORI is a reputable organisation with a sophisticated methodology. It may make uncomfortable reading but, relax, it doesn't mean that Brexit won't happen!

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

A cobblers attempt to dig yourself out of a hole there !

You can't present one polls figures, then ignore another one saying the opposite because you don't like it. If you don't rate polls then don't mention them at all.

Exactly. Cake and eating it syndrome.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Julian

Quite a few of the 2206 people interviewed didn't answer some questions correctly.........FACT.

It doesn't prove anything. Most people do not have such facts at their fingertips - this is just another cheap attempt to discredit those who want to leave.

I'm sure that a similar poll with questions designed to bring out preconceptions of remainers would produce similar results.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It doesn't prove anything. Most people do not have such facts at their fingertips - this is just another cheap attempt to discredit those who want to leave.

I'm sure that a similar poll with questions designed to bring out preconceptions of remainers would produce similar results.

l am certainly not discrediting anybody who wants to leave as that is their choice at the end of the day as we are leaving at the end of the day but l posted it for people to debate and discuss but as usual if people don't agree with it they dismiss it whether its from those who voted for Brexit and those who did not vote for it.

[Angua]

I really don't know why anyone bothers discussing Brexit. The lines are still as entrenched as they were back in 2016.

Except that people voted to have a minority government do the negotiations, with a team of people who seemingly have no idea what to expect, yet who bleat about EU intransigence, because they do not bother to understand what is within the EU purview to offer.

Some of us want a say on how we exit, I just wonder what the problem is with that, or why the government are negotiating at all if no deal is possible.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Angua

I really don't know why anyone bothers discussing Brexit. The lines are still as entrenched as they were back in 2016.

Except that people voted to have a minority government do the negotiations, with a team of people who seemingly have no idea what to expect, yet who bleat about EU intransigence, because they do not bother to understand what is within the EU purview to offer.

---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It doesn't prove anything. Most people do not have such facts at their fingertips - this is just another cheap attempt to discredit those who want to leave.

I'm sure that a similar poll with questions designed to bring out preconceptions of remainers would produce similar results.

It is exactly the job of King's College's Policy Institute to study such matters. It may not have answers in the report which you or I wanted to hear. But to dismiss it as a cheap attempt to discredit leavers is just disrespectful of other peoples' jobs and skills.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Angua

I really don't know why anyone bothers discussing Brexit. The lines are still as entrenched as they were back in 2016.

Except that people voted to have a minority government do the negotiations, with a team of people who seemingly have no idea what to expect, yet who bleat about EU intransigence, because they do not bother to understand what is within the EU purview to offer.

Some of us want a say on how we exit, I just wonder what the problem is with that, or why the government are negotiating at all if no deal is possible.

What's wrong with it is that it would be pointless. Do you really believe that the EU is going to assist us in contemplating a range of options? The deal will be the deal, take it or leave it.

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It is exactly the job of King's College's Policy Institute to study such matters. It may not have answers in the report which you or I wanted to hear. But to dismiss it as a cheap attempt to discredit leavers is just disrespectful of other peoples' jobs and skills.

I think it is pretty obvious that the poll was out to make a political point here. What is the point in asking the public for figures on anything? They are bound to get it wrong.

Ask Diane Abbott, she knows!

---------- Post added at 12:43 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

l am certainly not discrediting anybody who wants to leave as that is their choice at the end of the day as we are leaving at the end of the day but l posted it for people to debate and discuss but as usual if people don't agree with it they dismiss it whether its from those who voted for Brexit and those who did not vote for it.

I wasn't actually criticising you at all, Den. I was criticising the pollsters, who were either trying to make a political point or they were incredibly naive.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

[/B]
What's wrong with it is that it would be pointless. Do you really believe that the EU is going to assist us in contemplating a range of options? The deal will be the deal, take it or leave it.

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------



I think it is pretty obvious that the poll was out to make a political point here. What is the point in asking the public for figures on anything? They are bound to get it wrong.

Ask Diane Abbott, she knows!

---------- Post added at 12:43 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------



I wasn't actually criticising you at all, Den. I was criticising the pollsters, who were either trying to make a political point or they were incredibly naive.

Let's be honest here: the poll did not have the answer you like so it is "Fake News". As Angua mentioned, no amount of information, evidence, etc. will change the minds of those that are closed.

---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 ----------

A sobering perspective on Brexit from abroad:

A self-destructive madness grips the U.K. as a no-deal Brexit looms

Real stuff is now happening that might wake up the fantasists. While Ms. May and the EU leaders engaged in nervous chit-chat in Brussels, the French government published legislation to cope with a “no-deal” Brexit. The draft law, which would be rushed through the French legislature as a presidential edict, states that the British will be “third country citizens” who would require a visa to enter France and a residency permit to remain in France. The draft bill deals with controls on goods and people at the border as well as veterinary and phytosanitary controls for animals and plants.

Meanwhile, the news gets worse: U.K. GDP growth now significantly lags that of the EU, industrial production and investment has fallen sharply, the property market sags and flagship firms, such as Jaguar Land Rover, plan to shift production to Europe. With glorious cynicism, The Daily Telegraph, a strongly Brexit-supporting newspaper, suggests that private investors can profit from the sharp fall in sterling caused by a no-deal Brexit by investing in foreign, dollar-based funds.

For the people who dreamed up Brexit, its patriotism was always a lie, an appeal to a national myth of struggle and victory – Churchill’s “sunlit uplands,” the defeat of the Spanish Armada, the Empire. What they wanted was a low-tax, offshore Singapore, conveniently ignoring the real British economy.

What we are witnessing may be a nation, not just going into economic recession but a regression into political or cultural infantilism. The centre ground of politics has completely disappeared; the mad, the bad and the fools are now in charge.

[Hom3r]

Roll on March the 29th, I will be drinking a lod of Vodka to celebrate leaving the EU.

What with the BS that the Frecnh will blockage Calais.

OOH I'm so scared, we don't buy any French products so go on then, I'd like to see the other EU countries allowing their products not being shipped to the UK.

[Carth]

Taken from this page (June 2018) https://www.theguardian.com/business...-jobs-solihull

Hundreds of jobs could be at risk but Solihull plant to be upgraded for electric models


In a statement, JLR said: “This significant investment and technology upgrade in Solihull in order to accommodate our next generation of flagship Land Rover models, and the refit of our Halewood plant for the next Evoque, is proof that we remain committed both to the UK and to transformation and growth.”

Adding that job losses would come from agency staff employed at Solihull, the company said: “The decision to move the Land Rover Discovery to Slovakia and the potential losses of some agency employed staff in the UK is a tough one but forms part of our long-term manufacturing strategy as we transform our business globally.”

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Come on Pierre, don't be a flat-earther! Ipsos MORI is a reputable organisation with a sophisticated methodology.

Yes, Polls have been very accurate in recent times...............

Originally Posted by Angua

I really don't know why anyone bothers discussing Brexit. The lines are still as entrenched as they were back in 2016.

Except that people voted to have a minority government do the negotiations, with a team of people who seemingly have no idea what to expect, yet who bleat about EU intransigence, because they do not bother to understand what is within the EU purview to offer.

Some of us want a say on how we exit, I just wonder what the problem is with that, or why the government are negotiating at all if no deal is possible.

Because the exit you are talking about, is not an exit at all, staying in the Customs Union and or Single Market is remaining in the bloc - no thank you, this goes against leaving the EU!

And the minority argument from you, has been done to death, it's not a minority, people have a chance to vote in elections if they get off their arses, if they choose not to then that is their problem.