Brexit (Old)

Originally Posted by Angua

Final Say, Over 999,000 now.

Actual leave vote tally: 17.4 Million.

I can keep this up all day if you like. You won't win.

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Originally Posted by Angua

You do realise this is a petition to have a final say on what deal we have for Brexit. Not a rescind Brexit vote.

Surely it is better to have a majority agreement on such a permanent change, than a minority one? At least then the 49 million who did not vote positively for Brexit get a say, even if that does not please the dictators.

Otherwise we would have left the EU soon after triggering A50, rather than the dithering and movable red lines we have had.

So disingenuous to suggest the demands for a second referendum by the losers march, is for a final say on the deal, it's a demand for a re-run of the referendum, the "Stop Brexit" signs and posters, tells it so.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mick

Actual leave vote tally: 17.4 Million.

I can keep this up all day if you like. You won't win.

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:01 ----------



So disingenuous to suggest the demands for a second referendum by the losers march, is for a final say on the deal, it's a demand for a re-run of the referendum, the "Stop Brexit" signs and posters, tells it so.

I am not responding to you but papa smurf. Fact is 45 million who could vote did not positively vote leave.

So this is how silly it can get.

Originally Posted by Angua

I am not responding to you but papa smurf. Fact is 49 million who could vote did not positively vote leave.

So this is how silly it can get.

You brought that up before and you are conveniently forgetting that they did not vote remain either and more importantly - they don't count.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mick

You brought that up before and you are conveniently forgetting that they did not vote remain either and more importantly - they don't count.

Therefore a minority of those who could vote are dictating to the majority. Just the same as every general election since 1935.

A choice on the options on how we leave the EU means the majority who choose to vote would support that option.

I do wonder what people are so afraid of in giving people a choice of how we leave? If the government negotiations were better, I suspect more people would be happy to let them get on with it. Yet all we get are movable red lines and indecisiveness.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Angua

Therefore a minority of those who could vote are dictating to the majority. Just the same as every general election since 1935.

A choice on the options on how we leave the EU means the majority who choose to vote would support that option.

I do wonder what people are so afraid of in giving people a choice of how we leave? If the government negotiations were better, I suspect more people would be happy to let them get on with it. Yet all we get are movable red lines and indecisiveness.

What would you have said had the 52/48 been the other way round and the same sort of thing was happening?

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

What would you have said had the 52/48 been the other way round and the same sort of thing was happening?

Bit of an odd option as nothing would change. However, I would have no problem with re-visiting leaving the EU at some future date. UKIP would have pushed for another referendum had leave lost.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Angua

Bit of an odd option as nothing would change. However, I would have no problem with re-visiting leaving the EU at some future date. UKIP would have pushed for another referendum had leave lost.

What I meant was that if Leave had lost the original Referendum and there were > 1,000,000 signatures for a "People's Vote", what would your attitude be?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Angua

Bit of an odd option as nothing would change. However, I would have no problem with re-visiting leaving the EU at some future date. UKIP would have pushed for another referendum had leave lost.

Within 2 years?

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Originally Posted by Angua

A choice on the options on how we leave the EU means the majority who choose to vote would support that option.

FFS. The majority that chose to vote at the referendum and General Election chose to vote leave. We’ve done it twice already.

And “ how we leave”? Thee are just two ways, with a deal or without one.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Within 2 years?

---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------



FFS. The majority that chose to vote at the referendum and General Election chose to vote leave. We’ve done it twice already.

And “ how we leave”? Thee are just two ways, with a deal or without one.

So, if people choose without a deal, then that is what we do.

Why people voted for a particular party at the last election does not prove positive support for leave. Locally people voted both Labour and Lib Dem because they wanted to remain (this was very clear on their election leaflets). Yet the Tories won because people vote Tory no matter what round here.

Oddly enough the constituency voted remain in the EU referendum. So general election support does not equal support for leave. The two main parties have both leave and remain MPs, if most of the remain MP's had lost their seats, then the general election result would backing leave.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Angua

So, if people choose without a deal, then that is what we do.

what is the point of the vote then?

Why people voted for a particular party at the last election does not prove positive support for leave

. If people felt so strongly that they wanted to stay in the EU they could have voted for a party that would deliver it, there were at least 3 that said they would.

Locally people voted both Labour and Lib Dem because they wanted to remain (this was very clear on their election leaflets).

Labour were not remainers, Labour made it quite clear that they would Honour the referendum and leave the EU.


Only the Lib-Dems, SNP and Greens said that they would reverse the referendum.

Originally Posted by Angua

Therefore a minority of those who could vote are dictating to the majority. Just the same as every general election since 1935.

A choice on the options on how we leave the EU means the majority who choose to vote would support that option.

I do wonder what people are so afraid of in giving people a choice of how we leave? If the government negotiations were better, I suspect more people would be happy to let them get on with it. Yet all we get are movable red lines and indecisiveness.

No, all we want is a complete break away from the corrupted EU - which is what leaving the EU meant on the ballot paper - not half in, half out.

It did not say "Stay half in the EU or bits of it".

It said to leave the EU, that was what leaving means, you don't hang around, you leave, exit, depart, go away from.

You just don't get it do you, people who do not choose to vote, obviously do not care one way or the other, if they cared that much they would have got off their arses, registered to vote and decided to vote - they did not do so, so they lose their chance to have a say, that's how a free democracy works. They cannot complain after when a decision is made for them and it certainly is not dictating it for them - when they had a chance to participate, to say a minority is choosing for the majority, that is utter rubbish.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mick

No, all we want is a complete break away from the corrupted EU - which is what leaving the EU meant on the ballot paper - not half in, half out.

It did not say "Stay half in the EU or bits of it".

It said to leave the EU, that was what leaving means, you don't hang around, you leave, exit, depart, go away from.

You just don't get it do you, people who do not choose to vote, obviously do not care one way or the other, if they cared that much they would have got off their arses, registered to vote and decided to vote - they did not do so, so they lose their chance to have a say, that's how a free democracy works. They cannot complain after when a decision is made for them and it certainly is not dictating it for them - when they had a chance to participate, to say a minority is choosing for the majority, that is utter rubbish.

No, what you and some people want is a complete break. Without asking every single person in the UK what they want from Brexit, we have no idea of what they want. You assume the 17.4 million want the same as you. I do not make such an assumption.

When the Leave team were claiming we could leave but still remain in the customs union, do you really think this did not sway some waverers to vote leave. Or the slogan on the bus about the NHS money?

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Mick

[snip] . . if they cared that much they would have got off their arses, registered to vote and decided to vote.

Complacency mate, even the Government were guilty of it. They thought it would never happen.

I'm willing to stick my neck out and suggest most of those on protest marches are the ones who couldn't be arsed and now feel stupid

Originally Posted by Angua

No, what you and some people want is a complete break. Without asking every single person in the UK what they want from Brexit, we have no idea of what they want. You assume the 17.4 million want the same as you. I do not make such an assumption.

There is no assumption whatsoever. 17.4 Million people voted the same way I did - funnily enough they ticked the box which stated to Leave the European Union. That to me, means exactly that, if someone ticked it, meaning any other thing, then more fool them.

Originally Posted by Angua

When the Leave team were claiming we could leave but still remain in the customs union, do you really think this did not sway some waverers to vote leave. Or the slogan on the bus about the NHS money?

I do not doubt there was some swaying but again, it's all a one sided argument with you. There was lies on BOTH sides of the campaigns, do you not think the lie President Obama made when he said we would be at the back of the queue for trade, swayed people to vote Remain and I say lie because he would have left office by the time Brexit was enacted?

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mick

There is no assumption whatsoever. 17.4 Million people voted the same way I did - funnily enough they ticked the box which stated to Leave the European Union. That to me, means exactly that, if someone ticked it, meaning any other thing, then more fool them.



I do not doubt there was some swaying but again, it's all a one sided argument with you. There was lies on BOTH sides of the campaigns, do you not think the lie President Obama made when he said we would be at the back of the queue for trade, swayed people to vote Remain and I say lie because he would have left office by the time Brexit was enacted?

You assume Obama actually knew the details of what leaving actually involved, rather than seeing a country choose to leave a known market that can negotiate en-block with other countries?