Brexit discussion

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

Remind me, wasn't that the same David Cameron who said he wouldn't resign even if he 'lost' the referendum?

Cheers

Dave

Doesn't matter. When he said that he wouldn't resign he was speaking for himself as a private individual. When he said (in that video) that a vote to leave would mean that we leave and that the referendum would be binding he was speaking for the government and the establishment.

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

So when he said something he meant it

Cheers

Dave

See the above.

You and I both know that he was saying all that about the referendum as a tactic to get us to vote remain and probably to also look sincere however the fact remains that we were told (in no uncertain terms/very clear language) what would happen if we voted leave.
We voted leave.......let's have what was promised.

[1andrew1]

Sad to read this article, but the comments and analysis from the economists are interesting and worth a read. But beware - there's over a 100 economists interviewed!

Economists still gloomy on post-Brexit economy
The majority of economists remain gloomy about Britain’s economic prospects outside the EU, with the recent conclusion of withdrawal negotiations having done little to reassure them that Britain will be able to maintain sufficiently close trade links with the bloc after Brexit.
Two years ago, three-quarters of economists surveyed in the annual FT poll said they thought Brexit would harm Britain’s medium-term economic prospects. A year later, 40 per cent had become even more pessimistic, while almost half had maintained their level of pessimism.
Events during the past year have done little to brighten their outlook. Nearly two-thirds of the 107 respondents who answered the question in this year’s FT poll — which was fielded between 8 and 26 December 2017 — said they felt the same as they did a year before. Less than one-in-five said they felt more optimistic.

https://www.ft.com/content/123dcf90-...7-521324c81e23

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Farage can/could say what he wants. Fact is that Cameron said this: David Cameron's "Leave means Leave" & "No 2nd Ref" speech
That's what we were promised.

Also, what Farage said does not encapsulate absolutely everyone who voted leave, for anyone to suggest otherwise is simply being naive.

---------- Post added at 01:28 ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

What sort of person would suggest that?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36306681

That was totally nonsensical to highlight someone such as Farage, who is not in any government/position to dictate and force a vote...

Originally Posted by Mick

Also, what Farage said does not encapsulate absolutely everyone who voted leave, for anyone to suggest otherwise is simply being naive.

---------- Post added at 01:28 ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 ----------



That was totally nonsensical to highlight someone such as Farage, who is not in any government/position to dictate and force a vote...

Farage/UKIP, and the support they gathered, were the main reason the Referendum happened - they gave more credibility to the Tory Euro-sceptics, and were threatening to tear the Tories apart, so the Referendum was given to placate them, and those who were threatening to support UKIP and Farage (and for most of it’s time, Farage was seen as UKIP).

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Doesn't matter. When he said that he wouldn't resign he was speaking for himself as a private individual. When he said (in that video) that a vote to leave would mean that we leave and that the referendum would be binding he was speaking for the government and the establishment.
See the above.

You and I both know that he was saying all that about the referendum as a tactic to get us to vote remain and probably to also look sincere however the fact remains that we were told (in no uncertain terms/very clear language) what would happen if we voted leave.
We voted leave.......let's have what was promised.

The sooner the better, i am sick to the back teeth of it all.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Sirius

The sooner the better, i am sick to the back teeth of it all.

I think a lot of Brexit supporters are. It isn't that simple after all.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I think a lot of Brexit supporters are. It isn't that simple after all.

I want us out and the sooner the better. I am sick to the back teeth because we could just do it and then sort it. At the moment our Elected Mp's are making a meal of it. The public voted and the outcome is known, some like it some hate it but it is happening so we need to just get on with it.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I want us out and the sooner the better. I am sick to the back teeth because we could just do it and then sort it. At the moment our Elected Mp's are making a meal of it. The public voted and the outcome is known, some like it some hate it but it is happening so we need to just get on with it.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

All the time we're half out/half in allows the remoaners to frustrate the will of the people.

Those that couldn't be arsed to vote on one of the most important issues of the last 50 odd years simply don't count. You had your chance and you blew it.

One good thing about Brexit is the ‘voting changes nothing’ people where shocked out of it . Far more young people participating and voting now.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Farage/UKIP, and the support they gathered, were the main reason the Referendum happened - they gave more credibility to the Tory Euro-sceptics, and were threatening to tear the Tories apart, so the Referendum was given to placate them, and those who were threatening to support UKIP and Farage (and for most of it’s time, Farage was seen as UKIP).

You miss my point.

The EU is a bully, just look what they did or did not do when it came to Catalonia and Spain, Spain went in mob handed and assaulted those people, the EU turned a blind eye, may be said a few words.

Poland stands up to those corrupt imbeciles @ the EU and they start threatening sanctions. I am so frigging glad we are leaving that absolutely detestable gang of EU halfwits.

So to my point, Farage cannot dictate government policy, there has been strong EU skepticism since day one, way before Farage came on the scene. That has grown over the years when millions of people saw with their own eyes how corrupt the EU was/is and then voted accordingly.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Damien

One good thing about Brexit is the ‘voting changes nothing’ people where shocked out of it . Far more young people participating and voting now.

Right! The FPTP system didn't encourage people to vote but a referendum with a simple yes/no meant every vote counted and engaged many people.

Maybe there'll be a bit more momentum to try and reform our current system to make it more democratic. Not holding my breath though.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I think a lot of Brexit supporters are. It isn't that simple after all.

Brexiters had better get used to the current situation as we'll being obeying EU legislation and the ECJ until the end of 2020 and possibly beyond. People who believed the empty promises from the likes of David Davis will just have to grin and bear it.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Mick

You miss my point.

The EU is a bully, just look what they did or did not do when it came to Catalonia and Spain, Spain went in mob handed and assaulted those people, the EU turned a blind eye, may be said a few words.

Poland stands up to those corrupt imbeciles @ the EU and they start threatening sanctions. I am so frigging glad we are leaving that absolutely detestable gang of EU halfwits.

The EU was asked to butt out by the Spanish government and so therefore did nothing. This is much like the Scottish referendum. How is doing nothing bullying?

With Poland, the Polish government wants to put the judiciary under political control which is in contravention of EU law and the European Convention of Human Rights. In addition, the country has been logging illegally and has broken previously agreed positions on migrants. So yes, break international agreements and laws, you can expect a reaction, otherwise why have agreements at all?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

The EU was asked to butt out by the Spanish government and so therefore did nothing. This is much like the Scottish referendum. How is doing nothing bullying?

With Poland, the Polish government wants to put the judiciary under political control which is in contravention of EU law and the European Convention of Human Rights. In addition, the country has been logging illegally and has broken previously agreed positions on migrants. So yes, break international agreements and laws, you can expect a reaction, otherwise why have agreements at all?

Churchill was one of the instigators behind the European Convention on Human Rights. Unlike Chamberlain, he was not afraid to confront difficult situations. It's a bitter coincidence that the country (Poland) whose invasion led to the start of World war II should be breaching the Convention now. Well done to the EU for continuing Churchill's good work when evidently, some would prefer it to adopt Chamberlain's approach.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Churchill was one of the instigators behind the European Convention on Human Rights. Unlike Chamberlain, he was not afraid to confront difficult situations. It's a bitter coincidence that the country (Poland) whose invasion led to the start of World war II should be breaching the Convention now. Well done to the EU for continuing Churchill's good work when evidently, some would prefer it to adopt Chamberlain's approach.

The writing was led by David Maxwell-Fyffe, the British prosecutor in the Nuremberg trials of course.