Post-Brexit Thread - Page 78

Jimmy-J · 10-07-2016, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by techguyone

I'm still seeing a phantom (in my case p 12) showing that I can't get to.

Me too.

papa smurf · 10-07-2016, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by techguyone

I'm still seeing a phantom (in my case p 12) showing that I can't get to.

damn that brexit its ruined the internet

Ignitionnet · 10-07-2016, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456

And if it were a case of deal or no deal who do you think would win?

The EU. Next question please.

10-07-2016, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The EU. Next question please.

why should trading with the EU be any harder than trading with any other country

Ignitionnet · 10-07-2016, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

why should trading with the EU be any harder than trading with any other country

We want to trade financial and other services with them freely. This needs single market membership.

Trading goods is easy. Trading some services isn't especially difficult. Why should we have all the benefits of being in the single market with none of the costs? If we get that why would anyone else want to pool sovereignty within the EU when they can have a UK-style deal?

11-07-2016, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

We want to trade financial and other services with them freely. This needs single market membership.

The country voted to leave the EU and in doing so also voted to leave the single market and give up EU citizenship ,i think we should stop grasping at the single market straw

Trading goods is easy. Trading some services isn't especially difficult. Why should we have all the benefits of being in the single market with none of the costs? If we get that why would anyone else want to pool sovereignty within the EU when they can have a UK-style deal?

They wouldn't and the EU are using the ultimate sweetener of free trade in goods and services ,not to mention the other 'benefits' of the single market to take control of the sovereignty from those countries and make sure that other countries don't try it .Unless the EU changes and gets rid of freedom of movement and a host of the other 'benefits' of the free market we shouldn't even try to stay in it ,it's just not worth it .Besides given the fragility of all the European economies do we really want to remain so closely tied to them and is the free ,market even working as it's supposed to .

Ignitionnet · 11-07-2016, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

The country voted to leave the EU and in doing so also voted to leave the single market and give up EU citizenship ,i think we should stop grasping at the single market straw

Unless the EU changes and gets rid of freedom of movement and a host of the other 'benefits' of the free market we shouldn't even try to stay in it ,it's just not worth it .Besides given the fragility of all the European economies do we really want to remain so closely tied to them and is the free ,market even working as it's supposed to .

As far as I'm aware the country voted to leave the EU, which means giving up EU citizenship. There was nothing on the ballot paper about the single market.

According to all the polling I've seen EEA membership would have majority support from the country. Basically all who voted to remain would go along with it, and those who voted leave for sovereignty reasons rather than immigration.

We are closely tied to the EU economically whether we like it or not and short of committing economic suicide disentangling ourselves from it will take decades.

However I think you're spot on that we probably won't be in the EEA. People would rather be poorer, at least in the short and medium term, than have free movement.

---------- Post added at 10:26 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------

In other news looks like the EU owe us a favour. We seem to have shored up support for it in a number of member states.

---------- Post added at 10:52 ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 ----------

This has potential.

Quote:

The governance of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should be reinvented within a new voluntary union in a bid to save the UK from disintegration, an independent all-party group of experts will argue this week.

The Constitution Reform Group, convened by former Conservative cabinet minister Lord Salisbury, is to make the the case for radical constitutional change in the UK by claiming the need has been boosted by the vote to leave the European Union.

Their proposals say the existing union should be replaced with fully devolved government in each part of the UK, with each given full sovereignty over its own affairs. The Westminster parliament, the group says, should then be reduced to 146 MPs. The individual nations and regions of the UK would then be encouraged to pool sovereignty to cover the matters they wish to be dealt with on a shared basis.

11-07-2016, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

As far as I'm aware the country voted to leave the EU, which means giving up EU citizenship. There was nothing on the ballot paper about the single market.

Wouldn't that have been part of leaving the EU though i would have thought that leaving the single market was implied .

Quote:

We are closely tied to the EU economically whether we like it or not and short of committing economic suicide disentangling ourselves from it will take decades.

Yes we are and financially speaking the world is a tiny place and we have close financial ties with lots of countries and i don't think decades of being the biggest financial centre in the world is going to come to an end just because we are no longer in the single market after all the institutions set up here for a reason ,they preferred the UK to France or Germany for whatever reason and it wasn't the single market

Ignitionnet · 11-07-2016, 12:13

This is good from Allister Heath.

Not sure about some of it but most of it is a no-brainer.

**Damien** · 11-07-2016, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

Yes we are and financially speaking the world is a tiny place and we have close financial ties with lots of countries and i don't think decades of being the biggest financial centre in the world is going to come to an end just because we are no longer in the single market after all the institutions set up here for a reason ,they preferred the UK to France or Germany for whatever reason and it wasn't the single market

No but the single market is a big attraction. It's now an advantage France and Germany now have over us that they didn't before.

Big Brian · 11-07-2016, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

You have your statistics confused - whilst we import 54% of our goods and services from the EU, that is only 16% of their goods and services exports...

Maybe those figures are not accurate but this from May is.

Trade is one thing if it works both ways but in the case of UK v EU it was all one-way. That's another reason we had to get out.

Britain’s trade deficit with other European Union countries is running at a record high level ahead of the referendum next month, official figures show.

The latest healthcheck from the Office for National Statistics on goods coming in and going out of the UK reveal that the gap between exports and imports in the first three months of 2016 widened by £0.7bn to £23.9bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...erendum-brexit

It was going down anyway so what's the point being in an organisation where not only does it cost billions to be a member but it also cost billions in lost revenue? You wouldn't run your own business at that kind of loss. Believe it, we did you a big favour.

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy-J

Me too.

Me three.

---------- Post added at 11:52 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

The country voted to leave the EU and in doing so also voted to leave the single market and give up EU citizenship ,i think we should stop grasping at the single market straw

Trading goods is easy. Trading some services isn't especially difficult. Why should we have all the benefits of being in the single market with none of the costs? If we get that why would anyone else want to pool sovereignty within the EU when they can have a UK-style deal?

They wouldn't and the EU are using the ultimate sweetener of free trade in goods and services ,not to mention the other 'benefits' of the single market to take control of the sovereignty from those countries and make sure that other countries don't try it .Unless the EU changes and gets rid of freedom of movement and a host of the other 'benefits' of the free market we shouldn't even try to stay in it ,it's just not worth it .Besides given the fragility of all the European economies do we really want to remain so closely tied to them and is the free ,market even working as it's supposed to .

What's so good about the single market anyway when we are trading at a 24 bn. deficit? Give it up folks accept the result and move on.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

No but the single market is a big attraction. It's now an advantage France and Germany now have over us that they didn't before.

Of course it is. They benefit from it, we do not.

11-07-2016, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

No but the single market is a big attraction. It's now an advantage France and Germany now have over us that they didn't before.

I'm not convinced that something can't be worked to keep that advantage after all the financial sector is here and staying here is going to be preferable to moving .We just have to make staying here is still attractive post brexit ,maybe an EU-UK free trade agreement because whatever happens we are an important market for Europe

TheDaddy · 11-07-2016, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Brian

In what way is it not legally binding? True Parliament didn't have to act on it but they are. Whomever is Prime Minister has said so. The vote was a legal vote so the result stands whether or not Parliament act on it.

In this way perhaps

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ind...ndroid-h3g-gb#

I am a bit cheesed of that they're calling for an independent panel to investigate the costs and benefits of staying or going. I actually suggested that before the vore and still can't believe tptb didn't think of doing this themselves, it's a most criminal negligence imo.

---------- Post added at 21:14 ---------- Previous post was at 21:12 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Maybe those figures are not

It was going down anyway so what's the point being in an
What's so good about the single market anyway when we are trading at a 24 bn. deficit? Give it up folks accept the result and move on.t.

Why, nigel was quite clear he wouldn't be giving it up if the result had gone the other way.

Pierre · 11-07-2016, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

This has potential.[/URL]

I fail to how, or why.

The other home nations would struggle to survive without money from England.

**Hugh** · 11-07-2016, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Maybe those figures are not accurate but this from May is.

Trade is one thing if it works both ways but in the case of UK v EU it was all one-way. That's another reason we had to get out.

Britain’s trade deficit with other European Union countries is running at a record high level ahead of the referendum next month, official figures show.

The latest healthcheck from the Office for National Statistics on goods coming in and going out of the UK reveal that the gap between exports and imports in the first three months of 2016 widened by £0.7bn to £23.9bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...erendum-brexit

It was going down anyway so what's the point being in an organisation where not only does it cost billions to be a member but it also cost billions in lost revenue? You wouldn't run your own business at that kind of loss. Believe it, we did you a big favour.

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------

Me three.

---------- Post added at 11:52 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------

What's so good about the single market anyway when we are trading at a 24 bn. deficit? Give it up folks accept the result and move on.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------

Of course it is. They benefit from it, we do not.

We have a trade deficit with the world, not just with the EU...

https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statisti...n-EU_Data.aspx

Quote:

Non-EU Exports for May 2016 were £12.1 billion. This was a decrease of £0.5 billion (4.4 per cent) compared with last month, and a decrease of £2.4 billion (16.3 per cent) compared with May 2015.

Non-EU Imports for May 2016 were £17.5 billion. This was a decrease of £4.1 billion (18.8 per cent) compared with last month, and an increase of £2.2 billion (14.1 per cent) compared with May 2015.

In Non-EU trade the UK was a net importer this month, with imports exceeding exports by £5.4 billion.