[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[jamiefrost]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

I've been saying since we opted out that it was only a temporary opt out. Eventually, if it does survive, we will have no choice but to join as we will have no choice to join Schengen eventually.

In the case of Cameron's so called reforms, the Ministers are in no position to promise anything. All it takes is one veto and that's scuppered.

So how will we be forced to join if we have a veto? As you said yourself all it takes is one veto and that's scuppered!

J

[Osem]

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

So how will we be forced to join if we have a veto? As you said yourself all it takes is one veto and that's scuppered!

J

The same way we were taken from joining the EEC (a trade club) into the EU with its stated objective of becoming a single state'. Our leaders lied then, they've done it since and they'll do it again. Our govt. has the veto not us and they will do with it what suits them not us. They didn't even want us to have this referendum, it was only the rise of UKIP which finally secured it.

Cameron is lying about Turkey, claiming it won't happen whilst at the same time overseeing official policy designed to accelerate it. How weird is that?

[Ramrod]

"The often unspoken fear of many people – we should address it honestly and clearly and examine it--is that Europe might develop into a super-state, an overarching Government with no national veto, no control over our own borders, prescriptive decisions, a single currency imposed and the nation state retreating to a wholly subordinate role. That fear exists out there... and we should recognise the fact that it exists... I for one would find such a Europe wholly unacceptable for this country. I do not believe that it is remotely likely, but, if that were to be the future, it would not be a future that would be suitable for this country."– [John major, Official Report, 1 March 1995; Vol. 255, c. 1062.]

Prescient.......

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Prescient.......

How things change eh?

They tell us one thing and when the time suits do quite another and some folks still choose to believe these people now? What more will it take for them to see the deception?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Osem

What more will it take for them to see the deception?

They'll see it once it's too late

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I've been doing some more reading and watching.

I've gone from 60-40 in favour of Brexit to 50-50.

Had some knowledge bombs laid on me.

You can't leave it at that!

Originally Posted by Osem

Why anyone would pay any attention to his views on this, or any other matter other than football and pants, is beyond me but then some folks are a tad limited in their outlook.

Well people weren't listening to the 'experts' either who Leave have made clear they've 'had enough off'. Maybe Remain thought they would get people who aren't experts instead. Never mind though, Leave always have Keith Chegwin.

One of the complaints about the experts, other than their sinister approach to learning, is that they failed to predict the 2008 crash. Well, one of the few economists who did predict is is joining the other 90% of economists in saying bad idea.

Originally Posted by Osem

Cameron is lying about Turkey, claiming it won't happen whilst at the same time overseeing official policy designed to accelerate it. How weird is that?

Turkey isn't joining any time soon:

In brief: Turkey is a candidate to join the EU. But it’s unlikely to join any time soon. There are tensions to be resolved over Cyprus before aspects of the negotiation can even be opened, and the EU has concerns over Turkey’s human rights record. If and when the negotiations finish, Turkey must get approval to join from each existing EU member. Some are opposed to, or planning to hold a referendum on, Turkish membership. Support for membership among the Turkish population has declined since 2010.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

You can't leave it at that!



Well people weren't listening to the 'experts' either who Leave have made clear they've 'had enough off'. Maybe Remain thought they would get people who aren't experts instead. Never mind though, Leave always have Keith Chegwin.

One of the complaints about the experts, other than their sinister approach to learning, is that they failed to predict the 2008 crash. Well, one of the few economists who did predict is is joining the other 90% of economists in saying bad idea.




Turkey isn't joining any time soon:

Not joining any time soon isn't the same as NOT JOINING.

---------- Post added at 22:35 ---------- Previous post was at 22:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Ramrod

They'll see it once it's too late

I fear you're correct. If they can't take a look around the EU today and see what's going on it makes you wonder what they're looking through.

Young people voting to remain in the EU to protect jobs? Tell that to the unemployed in Spain, Greece, France, Italy, Portugal...

http://www.ibercampus.eu/european-un...-2016-3786.htm

Yup being in the EU is really helping them.

Originally Posted by Osem

Not joining any time soon isn't the same as NOT JOINING.

No but just because something might be possible in future doesn't mean it's likely. It's not impossible I'll win the lottery but I am not going to spend mortgage payments on lottery tickets. The Turkey issue is weak and even Boris conceded as much previously.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

No but just because something might be possible in future doesn't mean it's likely. It's not impossible I'll win the lottery but I am not going to spend mortgage payments on lottery tickets. The Turkey issue is weak and even Boris conceded as much previously.

Oh I see, uncertainty only matters on the leave side then eh? Turkey is currently being officially helped towards joining, how uncertain is that? Given the refugee crisis, you can bet the EU will find reasons to accelerate that help but of course they're not going to advertise that just yet because they want us to stay in don't they.

One the subject of 'likely', how likely is it that Cameron's pledge to cut net migration to the tens of thousands was utter BS intended to buy votes in the last election?

Cameron could have done something to end the uncertainty about Turkey by saying he'd veto any such move but even though his days are numbered and he has a tendency to tell porkies, he wouldn't even do that for fear of upsetting the EU agenda to see Turkey admitted.

[Gavin78]

I'm surprised Leave didn't have a dig at the Scottish referendum after all they wanted to leave and it was stuff the English and everything they seem to be arguing for now.

[Gary L]

Remember people. take a pen when you vote OUT. otherwise they'll rub it out and change it to stay!

[Rexz]

I cannot wait until this referendum is over. Since Jo Cox death, I am now classed as a bigot, a racist and a xenophobe because I want to leave the EU. I don't see any rhetoric like that coming from vote leave people, only remain.
I tried to stay away from news but it is everywhere. I turn the TV on and there is a news segment about how the vote leave are lying. I log into Facebook and there I am, labelled as above. I mean I understand how important this vote is, but the level at which the insults have reached is beyond belief! If people are so passionate about their side, why do they result to throwing insults? Are they losing the argument? Is it a cheap shot to knock more leavers down?
At least I can say this forum does seem to resolve to name calling and insults.

Anyway, come next week it should hopefully calm down and we can all move forwards!

The murder of Jo Cox is the latest in a thoroughly unpleasant and divisive referendum campaign and the way it's being manipulated by remain is disgusting, that said if people are that stupid to allow that one incident to sway their vote then they deserve whatever comes. This referendum was supposed to be a sign of our strong democracy and because of the political class in this country it's become an embarrassing farce doing who knows what damage to the uk internationally. I have long supported and believed we should get out of the EU but I wish now this referendum had never happened as whatever way the voting goes we have damaged our country with this farce.

[jamiefrost]

Originally Posted by Osem

How things change eh?

They tell us one thing and when the time suits do quite another and some folks still choose to believe these people now? What more will it take for them to see the deception?

None of those things have happened,

if the government were going to force us into a single currency they have had plenty of opportunities so why haven't they done so before what's changed that they are suddenly going to do so.

Closer political ties and cooperation does not make a super state.

Distrust in the government and beleiving that they are going to act against the will of the people will not change with leaving the EU.

Whats to stop the government signing away our rights to border control I exchange for access to the single market if we did leave if they are so dishonest.

J

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by jamiefrost

So how will we be forced to join if we have a veto? As you said yourself all it takes is one veto and that's scuppered!

J

If we want to remain in the EU, we will have to join the Euro, there is no veto involved in that. If we veto the European Super State we may as well leave the EU altogether. So why not get out now while we can? If you watched TV last night you'll know the five Presidents of the EU want a Super State by 2025and by that time, our new economy outside the EU will be well established.

---------- Post added at 06:45 ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

You can't leave it at that!



Well people weren't listening to the 'experts' either who Leave have made clear they've 'had enough off'. Maybe Remain thought they would get people who aren't experts instead. Never mind though, Leave always have Keith Chegwin.

One of the complaints about the experts, other than their sinister approach to learning, is that they failed to predict the 2008 crash. Well, one of the few economists who did predict is is joining the other 90% of economists in saying bad idea.




Turkey isn't joining any time soon:

It doesn't matter when they join. The other 4 countries up for membership are a certainty to produce mass migration.

---------- Post added at 06:53 ---------- Previous post was at 06:45 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

The murder of Jo Cox is the latest in a thoroughly unpleasant and divisive referendum campaign and the way it's being manipulated by remain is disgusting, that said if people are that stupid to allow that one incident to sway their vote then they deserve whatever comes. This referendum was supposed to be a sign of our strong democracy and because of the political class in this country it's become an embarrassing farce doing who knows what damage to the uk internationally. I have long supported and believed we should get out of the EU but I wish now this referendum had never happened as whatever way the voting goes we have damaged our country with this farce.

Democracy went out the window the minute the EU became a Political Union as well as a trading Union. Vote Leave and Take Back Control.