[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[nomadking]

From 2012

THE Daily Echo can reveal today that a huge payout of EU cash was made to Ford just before the company closed its Southampton plant – and it went to boost Transit production in Turkey. This paper has already disclosed how £10m of UK Government cash was approved to help British Ford operations just days before the Swaythling bombshell was dropped.
And now we have learnt that a cheap £80m EU loan to ramp up production of Transit vans in Turkey was also signed off just months before Ford’s devastating Southampton announcement.
The loan from the European Union’s bank, owned by Britain and fellow member states, was agreed in June as part of a billion dollar investment plan – about £600m – for Ford’s sprawling 395-acre site in Kocaeli which is taking over production of Transits from Southampton.

From 2002, when Romania wasn't in the EU and the UK had less crime and more homes, etc.

The Independent has also learned the Government will soon be asked to approve a multi-million World Bank loan to Mr Mittal to invest in his Sidex steel plant in Romania. Tony Blair wrote to the Romanian Prime Minister to endorse Mr Mittal's bid to buy the business. World Bank officials confirmed yesterday they were expecting an application from the steel magnate for a "phase-two" application to help him pay up to £200m still owing to the Romanian government over the next five years.The additional cash request comes on top of a second loan that Mr Mittal is expected to request from the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD), which already gave him a £70m loan to help him buy Sidex. "In phase two, EBRD and IFC [International Finance Corporation, part of the World Bank] have been asked to structure the long-term financing," a World Bank spokesman said yesterday.

[Big Brian]

Well, working for a large, London based University that most definitely teaches electronic technology both at degree level and for various technical qualifications, I have to question your last assertion If it were true, I would not have a job.

It's also worth noting that well over 60% of University research is funded by the EU. Research that is regarded well world wide.

If the research is any good it will get funding whether we are in the EU or not. Hmm wonder how we managed without the EU? Wake up and smell the coffee.

Originally Posted by Stephen

Well its been posted all over Facebook and the internet and so far it looks like there isn't much truth in the statements about EU grants.

The Hornby thing doesn't seem to be true either as far as I can find.

It seems to have been exaggerated for exampleFord in Turkey did get money from the European Investment Bank ...190m euros to build the new Ford Transit ,however it is a loan

As far as i can find the European Investment Bank supply loans to a large number of world wide companies ,but they are loans and presumably companies like ford would get the funding elsewhere if not the EIB .

It should also be pointed out (in the interests of fairness) that many UK companies like Rolls Royce and Nissan get massive sums from the EIB

Would the UK still have access to these funds should we leave the EU ?

http://www.eib.org/projects/loans/sectors/industry.htm


http://www.eib.org/projects/loans/re...n-union/gb.htm

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Stephen

So if it was shared on a forum are you sure it is 100% fact? If you don't really know much about it as you say you can't comment?

This has been postred here before by me for instance. When i posted it i made the statement that it was not verified to ensure people did not get on there high horse asking for it to be disected in detail for the next week

To be honest i dont think it 100%

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

If the research is any good it will get funding whether we are in the EU or not. Hmm wonder how we managed without the EU? Wake up and smell the coffee.

So you are suggesting we gamble with our research budgets? After all, you are saying we should remove our access to a MASSIVE source of funding for research, and we should hope we get access to others.

The problem is the Leave campaign appears to be asking us to go it alone. This is something we as a country haven't done in hundreds of years. Remember, before the EU, we had the British Commonwealth and before that we had the Empire. All three have (or had) massive resources. The Empire and the Commonwealth are now gone, so we don't have access to their resources. If we leave the EU, we lose access to theirs. Not only that, but we potentially end up competing with them. It's been argued that we are the 5th largest economy in the world. We are, if we have access to those resources. Without, we could be just a tiny little island somewhere west of Europe.

Of course, I suspect you don't like my post as it suggests we might actually get something BACK for our investment in the EU.

Where has the Commonwealth gone?

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Stuart

So you are suggesting we gamble with our research budgets? After all, you are saying we should remove our access to a MASSIVE source of funding for research, and we should hope we get access to others.

The problem is the Leave campaign appears to be asking us to go it alone. This is something we as a country haven't done in hundreds of years. Remember, before the EU, we had the British Commonwealth and before that we had the Empire. All three have (or had) massive resources. The Empire and the Commonwealth are now gone, so we don't have access to their resources. If we leave the EU, we lose access to theirs. Not only that, but we potentially end up competing with them. It's been argued that we are the 5th largest economy in the world. We are, if we have access to those resources. Without, we could be just a tiny little island somewhere west of Europe.

Of course, I suspect you don't like my post as it suggests we might actually get something BACK for our investment in the EU.

Not at all. We are only getting our own money back from the EU.

Dream on. You haven't had anything back in 44 years why would it start now?

Where did the money come from for research before we had the EU?

Originally Posted by Stuart

Of course, I suspect you don't like my post as it suggests we might actually get something BACK for our investment in the EU.

Since 26/01/2011 the UK has received £34,447,162,692 in loans from the EIB for everything from social housing new builds to the new battery plant for the Leaf at Nissan ,i don't know if the repayments are cheap or even if some of that figure is grant money but either way it is a huge amount of money to have access to .

http://www.eib.org/projects/loans/re...n-union/gb.htm

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by martyh

Since 26/01/2011 the UK has received £34,447,162,692 in loans from the EIB for everything from social housing new builds to the new battery plant for the Leaf at Nissan ,i don't know if the repayments are cheap or even if some of that figure is grant money but either way it is a huge amount of money to have access to .

http://www.eib.org/projects/loans/re...n-union/gb.htm

Indeed it is but can't you see you are only getting what you've paid in and they are charging interest on it by loaning it back to us? Doesn't seem like good business sense to me. We have all this money, we send it to the EU, we borrow it back, we pay interest as well as the loan. Is it not better to keep the money here in the first place?

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Indeed it is but can't you see you are only getting what you've paid in and they are charging interest on it by loaning it back to us? Doesn't seem like good business sense to me. We have all this money, we send it to the EU, we borrow it back, we pay interest as well as the loan. Is it not better to keep the money here in the first place?

Yes i agree to an extent ...but... that figure is money we have to give the EU because we are in the EU ,if we leave the EU that money will no longer be given to the EU ,you are correct in that ,but what happens when the party in power decide to play politics and start dishing out tax cuts or increase spending in foreign aid or investing heavily in the NHS or any government dept thus spending and diverting that money from where it was being spent before we left the EU

[jackjone]

There is always going to be people who agree or disagree. Some people are so emotive about their subject and when they are, they obviously want the best for them! If someone feels strong enough to write such a post, then I will share it. There is propaganda all over the place yet I don't see many other posts being questioned, especially on other sites. Moderators should be objective.

Basically, the EU is a mess, Britain is a mess, the people who suffer from wrong decisions and cutbacks by the government are a mess. Seriously, what has happened to good old fashioned values. Bring back the good old days.There isn't really anything else I can say.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Well, working for a large, London based University that most definitely teaches electronic technology both at degree level and for various technical qualifications, I have to question your last assertion If it were true, I would not have a job.

It's also worth noting that well over 60% of University research is funded by the EU. Research that is regarded well world wide.

If the research is any good it will get funding whether we are in the EU or not. Hmm wonder how we managed without the EU? Wake up and smell the coffee.

Seeing as EU funding apparently results in a reduction of the UK rebate, ie for every £3 of EU grant, the rebate gets reduced by £2, the actual %age for EU funding is 20%.

Link

The UK 'abatement', 'rebate' or 'correction' is the ad hoc mechanism that is applied to lower the UK's contribution to the EU budget, by reimbursing 66% of the country's budgetary imbalance (the difference between payments and receipts).

These are not meant to be representative of the actual numbers, but are merely to demonstrate the principle.
UK payment to EU £300.
Get back £30 in funding, rebate is 2/3rds of £270 ie £180 giving net payment of £90(£300-£180-£30).
Get back £60 in funding, rebate is 2/3rds of £240 ie £160 giving net payment of £80(£300-£160-£60).
Increase of £30 in EU funding to the UK, only £10 has come from the EU, the other £20 has come from the UK via the reduction in rebate.

[jackjone]

Originally Posted by Stuart

So you are suggesting we gamble with our research budgets? After all, you are saying we should remove our access to a MASSIVE source of funding for research, and we should hope we get access to others.

The problem is the Leave campaign appears to be asking us to go it alone. This is something we as a country haven't done in hundreds of years. Remember, before the EU, we had the British Commonwealth and before that we had the Empire. All three have (or had) massive resources. The Empire and the Commonwealth are now gone, so we don't have access to their resources. If we leave the EU, we lose access to theirs. Not only that, but we potentially end up competing with them. It's been argued that we are the 5th largest economy in the world. We are, if we have access to those resources. Without, we could be just a tiny little island somewhere west of Europe.

Of course, I suspect you don't like my post as it suggests we might actually get something BACK for our investment in the EU.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by jackjone

I don't see many other posts being questioned, especially on other sites. Moderators should be objective.

I've not seen any Moderation.

If not in bold, moderators are posting their own personal views, which obviously they are entitled to do.

As Chris asked when did the commonwealth cease to exist it seems to be doing relatively well and is a far bigger market then the EU and contains many more developing economies. This is the problem with the whole EU referendum debate half facts and exaggeration meaning neither side has made their case sufficiently enough for undecideds to make the informed choice they are looking for.