[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[techguyone]

Didn't take long did it 'Labour MP Neil Coyle making political capital out of colleagues death'

Hoping it'll hurt the Leave campaign - seems to have backfired though.

Yea I know it's the Mail...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ic-murder.html

[jackjone]

Well said!

---------- Post added at 09:36 ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

It's a great shame that it took the murder of an MP to restore some dignity to parliament. Sadly, it'll be business as usual in the not too distant future.

Yes it is. Well said.

Originally Posted by Osem

It's a great shame that it took the murder of an MP to restore some dignity to parliament. Sadly, it'll be business as usual in the not too distant future.

I think it's on us as well. We get angry and dehumanise our politicians too often. Most people mean well even if we have big disagreements.

[jackjone]

This information has just been shared with me. It is an interesting read. Don't ask me to respond to any of it though as it is not an area I am familiar with not did I research it. Looks like it has been well researched by the writer though. It may damage your eyes, but read on....

Reasons to Leave the EU

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

[admars]

remember, tonight the only tv show not likely to be full of rubbish but just give you the bare facts ( ) is back for 1 night only tonight on Channel 4 at 21:00
http://www.radiotimes.com/tv-program...rash--17062016

[Stephen]

First off no need to shout and second where did this 'info' come from?

[jackjone]

Originally Posted by Stephen

First off no need to shout and second where did this 'info' come from?

It was shared on a forum discussing the EU referendum. I didn't know that I was shouting as I am new to forums. I simply didn't want people to ask me to comment hence my reason for the capitals.

Done now, hope that is better....

[Stephen]

So if it was shared on a forum are you sure it is 100% fact? If you don't really know much about it as you say you can't comment?

[jackjone]

Originally Posted by Stephen

So if it was shared on a forum are you sure it is 100% fact? If you don't really know much about it as you say you can't comment?

Well, the person who shared it is a very knowledgeable researcher who has had in interest in and experience of British Industry for many years. I am sure he would be more than particular about what he posted. I would trust it to be more factual than a lot of the information going around at the moment.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Stephen

So if it was shared on a forum are you sure it is 100% fact? If you don't really know much about it as you say you can't comment?

I think this extract was posted (again without a link) earlier in this thread ..

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 ----------

Originally Posted by Stephen

So if it was shared on a forum are you sure it is 100% fact? If you don't really know much about it as you say you can't comment?

I did a simple Google query using one of the sentences and the results are a bit creepy. Many, many forum sites have this Brexit narrative posted verbatim to their boards:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="M...man+companies"

Even, the Pet Shop Boys are not spared!

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I think this extract was posted (again without a link) earlier in this thread ..

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 ----------



I did a simple Google query using one of the sentences and the results are a bit creepy. Many, many forum sites have this Brexit narrative posted verbatim to their boards:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="Most+London+buses+are+run+by+Spanish+and +German+companies"

Even, the Pet Shop Boys are not spared!

So it is more likely a load of nonsense or at least propaganda from a Brexit fan?

From one of the comment sections

Whenever I see a post like this I feel the need to check it's veracity, particularly when no links are provided. So, when I searched for the Cadbury story, most of the results seemed to come from blogs where people have cut and pasted the same thing (as you have done). The BBC News site has a few articles on the closure, which Cadbury had planned in 2007, before the Kraft takeover. I could find no mention of an EU grant - the plan seems to have been to cut costs and sell off the factory land.
As for the Ford Transit story, to quote the Independent,

Production of Transit is off to Kocaeli in sunny Turkey, where the US giant says costs are “significantly lower”.

No EU grant involved. As Turkey isn't in the EU, why would Ford get a grant? Ford have had a factory in Turkey for decades. Dyson's decision to move production to Malaysia (also not a member of the EU) was prompted by a desire to reduce costs by 30%. Again, no EU grant involved...

[jackjone]

Originally Posted by Stephen

So it is more likely a load of nonsense or at least propaganda from a Brexit fan?

From one of the comment sections

No I would not say it was rubbish but that is only my opinion. It was shared with me (on facebook) from a highly educated person as I said so I can only assume it was researched. I have had a quick look and I see how it has been posted on other forums too now. Perhaps they know more than we do - perhaps someone has inside information. I don't see it questioned on the other 2 forums I have looked at - I assume it is up to people to make up their own minds as to whether it is propaganda or not. Shame about British Industry! I may, if I have time, try to find out more..

[Stephen]

Well its been posted all over Facebook and the internet and so far it looks like there isn't much truth in the statements about EU grants.

The Hornby thing doesn't seem to be true either as far as I can find.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by jackjone

Yes, let's say a prayer for her family. It is tragic.

Reading the latest reports, it seems more mental health related than referendum related. No 'sane' person would carry out these actions.

She helped many and god rest her soul!

For sure. However, one witness said the attacker shouted either of these 2 things:

"Put Britain First."
"Britain First."

Yea, as you say mental. Have to be to join these organisations.

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:59 ----------

Originally Posted by techguyone

Didn't take long did it 'Labour MP Neil Coyle making political capital out of colleagues death'

Hoping it'll hurt the Leave campaign - seems to have backfired though.

Yea I know it's the Mail...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ic-murder.html

There's always one idiot!

---------- Post added at 14:09 ---------- Previous post was at 14:03 ----------

Originally Posted by jackjone

This information has just been shared with me. It is an interesting read. Don't ask me to respond to any of it though as it is not an area I am familiar with not did I research it. Looks like it has been well researched by the writer though. It may damage your eyes, but read on....

Reasons to Leave the EU

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

If you keep up with the news you'll know these firms have left the UK and gone abroad. Some of the names I remember vividly. It's no hoax.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by jackjone

[Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

I'm no expert, but I am fairly certain that company obtaining a loan for one purpose and then using it for another is actually illegal in most countries, and would certainly not be tolerated internationally. In fact, I think it would be considered massive fraud.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU

Doubtful, I'd like to see proof.

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

I don't think that selling our companies overseas is a good thing for the country,but I think the governments that allowed it (including ours, which still is) need to face the blame. Other governments seem to have the ability to resist the pressure the EU apparently applies to sell off companies overseas, why have multiple UK governments not only failed to do this, but have failed to encourage our own companies to profit. Why have the French railways been allowed to take over our own? When British Rail was split into regional companies before privatisation, why weren't they encouraged to buy into other country's railway systems? The same with our Energy companies.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

Well, working for a large, London based University that most definitely teaches electronic technology both at degree level and for various technical qualifications, I have to question your last assertion If it were true, I would not have a job.

It's also worth noting that well over 60% of University research is funded by the EU. Research that is regarded well world wide.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

Why on earth would farmers settle for less money when they could make more by selling food? BTW, a major reason farmers have problems is the fact we use Supermarkets. That money you get off a steak, or a bottle of milk isn't coming from the pockets of the supermarkets. It's coming from the pockets of their suppliers. Remember that when you next do your weekly shop. You and I choose to use supermarkets. We are not forced to by some EU (or even government) ruling.