[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[techguyone]

Or by the fact that so many of these people from Libya, Syria etc have 'lost their papers' and when pressed admit to coming from elsewhere, like Africa.

[Gavin78]

So why don't they stay and fight and women and children might be accommodated across the EU while the men go and fight for their country.

Like we had to do when Germany decided to invade Europe. All I see is hundreds of thousands of young males waiting to cross the border using it as an excuse to get here when they wouldn't have had one before.

What do they say, free housing, free money and free everything that is why we come to the UK and as many have pointed out they pass many countries to get here why can't they settled there along the way.

Also why should this be a EU problem when you point out this is a problem for the world so lets start with all the countries that aren't taking any refugees in. just look at the size of Russia even Australia only has a population of 22m people.

I'm sorry to say but we do our bit to help and there is only so much we can do

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

It's a complicated animal and would take too long to debate it but those who set the rules are not elected by the people to those positions though they are elected by those whom we have elected. The point is we have been outvoted on the important things not the trivial things. It will never change. Remain go on about 'A reformed Europe.' What exactly does this mean? They want us to remain in a 'Reformed Europe' but it isn't reformed so what are remain voting for? More of the same and a lot worse.

I thought I would do some digging and you can see how we voted in the Council elections here - http://www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-cou...d-kingdom.html

In the past two years, we have lost votes on Car emergency notification systems, the installation of judge deputies in the ECJ, how EU statistics are gathered, the funding of Europe wide political parties and a Europe wide promotion of agricultural products.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

I thought I would do some digging and you can see how we voted in the Council elections here - http://www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-cou...d-kingdom.html

In the past two years, we have lost votes on Car emergency notification systems, the installation of judge deputies in the ECJ, how EU statistics are gathered, the funding of Europe wide political parties and a Europe wide promotion of agricultural products.

Things we really need to know about and have. TAKE BACK Control. Vote Leave!

[Taf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

No immigrants that will "work for less" --> higher wages (by definition) paid to "British" workers --> higher prices

And more money spent in the UK by those workers and not sent "back home" where living costs are lower.

And don't forget that those who have worked here will be entitled to pensions even if they are no longer living here. Both Brits and others.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Well I have done plenty of research in to the subject and am also very intelligent.

Most people that cross borders or try to live in other countries after fleaing their own aren't doing so the the fun of it. They are doing due to fear of dying in their own country or starving to death. We as human beings can't just say no, go back where you came from. We have to do whats right and show compassion.

Ihighly doubt our various UK governments would have been able to do half the stuff being in the EU has brought in. Its them that privatised everything and destroyed so many industries! Can't really blame the EU for all of that.

I don't think compassion is very high on people's lists. Just look at the Immigration threads, hardly any posts about how these refugees can be helped at or near their point of origin. It is all about how can we keep them out ..

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

And more money spent in the UK by those workers and not sent "back home" where living costs are lower.

And don't forget that those who have worked here will be entitled to pensions even if they are no longer living here. Both Brits and others.

We're just creating another pensions time-bomb. The only realistic 'answer' to the UK's problems is not never ending population growth, it's improved productivity.

It's odd how migrants are simultaneously lauded for a) doing all the low paid, manual jobs, lazy Brits don't want b) paying more tax than their indigenous peers whilst taking less benefits, c) propping up our economy with their spending, d) repatriating large, much needed funds to their home nations, e) keeping the NHS & other services afloat whilst f) putting an insignificant burden on them.

Sorry but it doesn't add up. For one thing, anyone working at near the minimum wage will be paying virtually nothing in income tax* and will very likely qualify for relatively generous in work benefits, tax credits etc. When they arrive they may well be young, fit and single but when they have children and as they grow older they become just as much a cost to the state as anyone else.

* By my maths, someone on £15k a year will be taxed at 20% on £4k which amounts to income tax of £800 pa. That doesn't buy much by way of NHS time...

The figures shown from 2012 show what sort of in work benefits migrants are entitled to and how relatively generous they are. In work benefits include: income support, housing benefit, CB and tax credits.

Conclusion

15. The UK is far more generous than most other EU15 countries in topping-up low wages by just over 80% through in-work and housing benefits. This makes employment in the UK a very attractive for migrants from less wealthy EU member states, especially after adjusting for differences in the cost of living.

16. Access to unemployment benefit is also much easier than in other EU countries.

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/284

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Horizon

Which begs the question, what do they want?

I think this is the critical question: I feel that Merkel et al are just in denial here. They should have done a deal with Dave when he came to say "if we cannot get some viable ability to cap immigration then the UK *will* be leaving the EU".

Seems a high stakes gamble on their part or are they just so far removed from reality?

The EU project has to provide a country with the ability to cope with the demands of being in the system. The rules need to be flexible enough to cope with country specific needs without going too far as to cause infighting.

[Taf]

The Swiss have just pulled their application to join the EU.

No sign of it on the BBC?

https://www.rt.com/news/346884-switz...tion-rejected/

The Swiss haven't been considered as a candidate country since the negotiations stopped in 1992. This was really just a formality. In fact the very act of reporting it at this stage in the referendum campaign would most likely give it more significance than it really deserves.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

The Swiss have just pulled their application to join the EU.

No sign of it on the BBC?

https://www.rt.com/news/346884-switz...tion-rejected/

I'm sure that's only scaremongering from the leave side. lol

A lot of the campaigning and TV specials have been cancelled for now. Probably tomorrow as well. For obvious reasons.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Damien

A lot of the campaigning and TV specials have been cancelled for now. Probably tomorrow as well. For obvious reasons.

Yes that was tragic and unbelievable. I hope it wasn't connected to the referendum in any way. Let's say a prayer for her family if that is your way.

[jackjone]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Yes that was tragic and unbelievable. I hope it wasn't connected to the referendum in any way. Let's say a prayer for her family if that is your way.

Yes, let's say a prayer for her family. It is tragic.

Reading the latest reports, it seems more mental health related than referendum related. No 'sane' person would carry out these actions.

She helped many and god rest her soul!

[Osem]

It's a great shame that it took the murder of an MP to restore some dignity to parliament. Sadly, it'll be business as usual in the not too distant future.