[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Erm, a lot of the Tories who are involved in the squabbles/infighting are leading lights in the Leave campaign - it's not either/or...

Yes and they are concentrating on the Campaign more though they do snipe at each other

Originally Posted by Big Brian

Yes and they are concentrating on the Campaign more though they do snipe at each other

Really?

That's doesn't appear to be reflected in the national media....

[Gavin78]

Bring blair and bush back we didn't have any of this nonsense when they were around

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Bring blair and bush back we didn't have any of this nonsense when they were around

You mean the ones who really want to eradicate our sovereignty; the New World Order people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2c9PMV3ZJg

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Really?

That's doesn't appear to be reflected in the national media....

Boris is Campaigning as is Farage. Corbyn's heart isn't in it.

---------- Post added at 14:54 ---------- Previous post was at 14:53 ----------

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Bring blair and bush back we didn't have any of this nonsense when they were around

The same Blair who fracked things up you mean?

[Big Brian]

Council to pulp EU referendum postal ballots as 'bias' row spreads nationwide

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...s-row-spreads/

for heaven's sake!

If people are that stupid, I'm surprised they can find their way to the voting booths, with the complexity of breathing and walking at the same time....

[Ramrod]

I don't see how it's biased

[papa smurf]

just re print them with the pen about to put an x in the leave box if its so unimportant .

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by Hugh

for heaven's sake!

If people are that stupid, I'm surprised they can find their way to the voting booths, with the complexity of breathing and walking at the same time....

On the face of it I agree with you... But commercial companies spend thousands of pounds on marketing experts who specialise in the unconscious subtleties that will affect a person's choice.

For the people who know which way they want to vote, it will make little difference. For undecided people, it could.

Commercial companies don't spend thousands of pounds on this sort of thing for no reason.

People are super-sensitive about anything that might even hint at bias or giving a nudge to the voter. It's why they're very careful about the wording of the question. As an example they never should have allowed the Scottish Independence question to be what it was. The same goes for polling, any poll that is perceived to have asked questions in the wrong order is discounted. If you were to ask 'Is immigration too high?' or 'Is it better to Remain or Leave for the Economy?' before the questioned that asked 'Should Britain remain a member of the EU?' then the poll would be flawed because they've put a topic favourable to either side at the forefront of the voters mind before asking the question.

I think it's a good idea for them to remove those guides although this:

Bernard Jenkin, the Vote Leave supporting MP who chairs a Commons committee that oversees the conduct of the referendum, said the development was “absolutely astonishing”.

is an overreaction.

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

How have previous ones been done? Eg Scottish independence vote. They could have easily just had a picture of a box with a cross in it with nothing else surrounding it.

I mean I had my postal vote though and I didn't have the guide at all. Not sure how common they are. I can see why Leave have a problem with it but I think it was done unintentionally and any effect is minimal if that. It's just though caution that we should avoid anything with the suggestion of bias.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Hugh

for heaven's sake!

If people are that stupid, I'm surprised they can find their way to the voting booths, with the complexity of breathing and walking at the same time....

Careful Hugh, there may be a conflict with the views you express in the tobacco thread; for example:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Do you honestly think tobacco manufacturers spend billions of dollars/pounds on brand marketing if it has no effect?

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Damien

People are super-sensitive about anything that might even hint at bias or giving a nudge to the voter. It's why they're very careful about the wording of the question. As an example they never should have allowed the Scottish Independence question to be what it was. The same goes for polling, any poll that is perceived to have asked questions in the wrong order is discounted. If you were to ask 'Is immigration too high?' or 'Is it better to Remain or Leave for the Economy?' before the questioned that asked 'Should Britain remain a member of the EU?' then the poll would be flawed because they've put a topic favourable to either side at the forefront of the voters mind before asking the question.

I think it's a good idea for them to remove those guides although this:



is an overreaction.

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------



I mean I had my postal vote though and I didn't have the guide at all. Not sure how common they are. I can see why Leave have a problem with it but I think it was done unintentionally and any effect is minimal if that. It's just though caution that we should avoid anything with the suggestion of bias.

Oh it was deliberate all right make no mistake. As our friend Passingbat pointed out these Companies go out of their way to make it so.

Originally Posted by Kursk

Careful Hugh, there may be a conflict with the views you express in the tobacco thread; for example:

If you can't tell the difference in scale and potential impact between one small graphic on one leaflet and tens of billions of dollars on marketing a product....

[Big Brian]

Michael Gove on BBC Breakfast News today said that leaving the EU could mean scrapping the 5% VAT on domestic fuel bills saving the average household £60 a year. This is a good thing but would the Government actually do this? He also said, and I believe he's right that there is no way we can do this if we remain in the EU.

The EU control VAT and once it's here, it's here to stay. Our Government can vary it but they can't scrap it on any items without their permission. Leaving the EU would give us back that control on VAT. I could think of a few things VAT could be scrapped on as I'm sure you all can but one thing is for sure: If we remain in the EU we have no real control over it.

Would we be better off economically if we leave the EU? I think so but I don't think it will be as much as we are led to believe. It all boils down to our ability to control our own affairs. We know we send billions a year to the EU and yes we get some back but the EU tell us what that money is to be spent on, we have no control over it so what is the use? Some will say if we have that control that non essential things may suffer and that is probably true but I think I would rather have the control to spend it on the NHS rather than some useless structure in a City they call art. An example would be the cows in Milton Keynes.

It's all about having control over our own affairs so regardless whether it is better to be in the EU or not becomes irrelevant if you hold that view and some will cast their votes on that principle. Some will cast their votes on the economy. Some will cast their votes on immigration but in the end it still comes down to controlling our own affairs.