[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Osem]

Wow, as if WWIII, national security, workers' rights, house prices, the value of Sterling blah, blah, blah, wasn't enough, now if we leave our European holidays will cost more according to the PM. Well if all their other predictions of gloom come to pass that'd be the last thing we'll need to be worried about won't it. My God they really are scraping the barrel. This is getting ludicrous.

Originally Posted by Osem

Wow, as if WWIII, national security, workers' rights, house prices, the value of Sterling blah, blah, blah, wasn't enough, now if we leave our European holidays will cost more according to the PM. Well if all their other predictions of gloom come to pass that'd be the last thing we'll need to be worried about won't it. My God they really are scraping the barrel. This is getting ludicrous.

Wouldn't want to go to Europe for my hols anyway cos it'll be overrun with terrorists thanks to their open borders

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Stuart

You bring logic to the discussion, so let me answer this particular point logically. It's logical that if the voice we have in the EU (assuming we remain) gets smaller the more the EU integrates, then it will be smaller still if we leave.

In the meantime , we will be competing internationally with an organisation consisting of many more people than live in our country, and counts countries with some of the largest economies in the the world as members. Do you, or any other member promoting leaving the EU seriously contend we can compete with that?

It is also logical to suggest that as the EU exports millions of pounds worth of goods/services to us that they would not wish to lose that trade and would seek a trade deal in the event of Brexit.

Originally Posted by pip08456

It is also logical to suggest that as the EU exports millions of pounds worth of goods/services to us that they would not wish to lose that trade and would seek a trade deal in the event of Brexit.

Isn't it a bit simpler than that though? will we have to negotiate with the big scary EU as a whole or will we simply have to negotiate with the various countries to get the goods we want?

UK already complies with EU regulations so trading with the EU shouldn't be too big an issue unless politicians make it so and sadly that can't be ruled out.

[Mr K]

The jobs as good as done.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...are-deserting/
No need for Dave and George to keep on with the histrionics. As predicted the undecideds and many Brexiters are switching to Remain as polling day approaches. I suspect this would have happened even without Project Fear. The British love a whinge but when faced with the reality of what it would mean to them personally, they soon change their minds. I'm predicting a landslide 60/40 for remain.
All an utter waste of time, to pander to the vocal minority of right wing swivel eyed loons.
Still at least it'll be the end of Dave and a Tory civil war. There's always a silver lining

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

The jobs as good as done.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...are-deserting/
No need for Dave and George to keep on with the histrionics. As predicted the undecideds and many Brexiters are switching to Remain as polling day approaches. I suspect this would have happened even without Project Fear. The British love a whinge but when faced with the reality of what it would mean to them personally, they soon change their minds. I'm predicting a landslide 60/40 for remain.
All an utter waste of time, to pander to the vocal minority of right wing swivel eyed loons.
Still at least it'll be the end of Dave and a Tory civil war. There's always a silver lining

well there's nothing like a good winning speech - and that was nothing like one

---------- Post added at 21:59 ---------- Previous post was at 21:41 ----------

David Cameron 'could face no-confidence vote by his own MPs over handling of EU referendum'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7044431.html

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Stuart

You bring logic to the discussion, so let me answer this particular point logically. It's logical that if the voice we have in the EU (assuming we remain) gets smaller the more the EU integrates, then it will be smaller still if we leave.

We can cope fine without a voice in the EU if we leave. Hell, Cameron had to fight tooth and nail to get VAT on tampons reduced and it looks like that decision will be reversed anyway!

In the meantime , we will be competing internationally with an organisation consisting of many more people than live in our country, and counts countries with some of the largest economies in the the world as members. Do you, or any other member promoting leaving the EU seriously contend we can compete with that?

Yes! Because we are the 5th largest economy in the world.....out of 196 countries in the world.

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Mr K

The jobs as good as done.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...are-deserting/
No need for Dave and George to keep on with the histrionics. As predicted the undecideds and many Brexiters are switching to Remain as polling day approaches. I suspect this would have happened even without Project Fear. The British love a whinge but when faced with the reality of what it would mean to them personally, they soon change their minds. I'm predicting a landslide 60/40 for remain.
All an utter waste of time, to pander to the vocal minority of right wing swivel eyed loons.
Still at least it'll be the end of Dave and a Tory civil war. There's always a silver lining

Slow echo in here......

Mr K I hate to stomp on your stereotyping but I'm not right wing by any stretch and I want out of the EU as do many and given that the only thing lower in quality then our media are our politicians I wouldn't be shouting victory just yet.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Osem

Wow, as if WWIII, national security, workers' rights, house prices, the value of Sterling blah, blah, blah, wasn't enough, now if we leave our European holidays will cost more according to the PM. Well if all their other predictions of gloom come to pass that'd be the last thing we'll need to be worried about won't it. My God they really are scraping the barrel. This is getting ludicrous.

That they are. However, some will cast their vote on that issue. Some will believe the doom and gloom and some will believe this mornings one - another 2 years of austerity.

I wasn't too worried about the vote until now and was quietly confident of a Leave vote but with all this coming out now, I'm not so confident. The good thing is that after Friday the Government can't do any more to influence the vote.

---------- Post added at 06:42 ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

Isn't it a bit simpler than that though? will we have to negotiate with the big scary EU as a whole or will we simply have to negotiate with the various countries to get the goods we want?

That's a good question and I don't know the answer to it. However, while trying to find out, I came across this interesting site.

Brexit – what would happen if Britain left the EU?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-referendum-uk

Lots of supporting information for both sides of the debate in that article, showing that it isn't cut and dried, no matter what either side says...

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Big Brian

The good thing is that after Friday the Government can't do any more to influence the vote.

People also have short memories and the ludicrous gloom and doom opinions, for that is all they are, will soon be forgotten. It's the outpourings in the last few days before the vote that will matter and then only on those who are undecided.

[jonbxx]

It's all starting to ramp up now isn't it?

On economics, one point Brexit people make is that we are the 5th largest economy globally so there wouldn't be a tariff shock. If that is the case, why are there still tariffs in place for imports and exports to Japan, China and the US who are larger economies than the UK? Doesn't BMW, Siemens, etc. want to sell to those countries?

[Gavin78]

So the simple answer to this is anyone in the EU is now owned by the EU and you can never leave due to dire consequences to that country and how the world will treat them?

Because that is how it is coming across from the globe and people want to vote to stay in.