[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

Originally Posted by Ramrod

How was the poll re Turkey 'fear'?

I was referring to the whole Turkey strategy of Vote Leave. The poll accompanies this poster for example:

That seems like a reasonable warning to me.

Originally Posted by Chris

That seems like a reasonable warning to me.

But Turkey are not joining the EU and we have a Veto if we did. Still it remains a possibility as does the economy entering a recession, let whereas the former is 'a reasonable warning' it the latter is scaremongering.

I wonder if there is a single thing Remain has said that hasn't been dismissed as scaremongering or talking Britain down by leave.

Well if I listen to Cameron Damien turkey will become a member of the EU in a previous speech he was quite clear in wanting to pave roads from Brussels to Ankara and was quite enthusiastic about turkey joining the EU. Of course he is now saying differently as it's not a positive thing to pursue at the minute, but given the EU's desire to expand you honestly believe they are not going to admit turkey at some point in the next ten years?. This for me is another problem with the EU they are extremely selective on what they admit and what they tell any of us about future plans and pardon me for being cynical but that veto isn't worth the paper it's written on and once the issue of member states leaving the EU goes away so will that veto.

I asked before and Osem has also said if the EU is so great why are so many keen to get out and see it collapse surely we should all be happy and enthusiastic about the EU but we are not and as much as some would like to pretend it's only the UK that feels this way it isn't this movement is in many countries and growing. For me it isn't if the EU is going to collapse it's when and I'd much prefer the UK to have gotten out and be building rather then clinging onto the end with all the damage that will do.

As for fear there is no debate on who has used it most in this fiasco and we have weeks more of it to come I just hope enough don't fall for it and vote to remain as that will be more damaging for the UK and if we do vote to remain I think we will see quite quickly how much the EU really values the UK.

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Well if I listen to Cameron Damien turkey will become a member of the EU in a previous speech he was quite clear in wanting to pave roads from Brussels to Ankara and was quite enthusiastic about turkey joining the EU. Of course he is now saying differently as it's not a positive thing to pursue at the minute, but given the EU's desire to expand you honestly believe they are not going to admit turkey at some point in the next ten years?. This for me is another problem with the EU they are extremely selective on what they admit and what they tell any of us about future plans and pardon me for being cynical but that veto isn't worth the paper it's written on and once the issue of member states leaving the EU goes away so will that veto.

By what mechanism will get rid of the veto and, if it wasn't worth the paper it was written on, then why have we been able to use it before? Cameron has said he would like Turkey to join the EU as has Boris Johnson and other members of the Leave campaign before they decided it against it now. Either way the power would still be in Britain's hands to reject it if the Government actually wanted to do so and Turkey are still a long way away from even being able to apply.

Anyway it's fair enough for Leave to use if they wish. Remain would do so it if helped them.

[pip08456]

Anyone with any sense can see that Turkey is holding the EU to ransom as it is one of the main conduits for refugees into the EU zone.

The EU has thrown millions if not billions at Turkey to close that conduit but Turkey wants visa permits for it's citizens to travel within the Schengen zone.- Why?

Could it be that if it was allowed Turkey could get rid of it's refugee problem in a stroke?

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Damien

But Turkey are not joining the EU and we have a Veto if we did. Still it remains a possibility as does the economy entering a recession, let whereas the former is 'a reasonable warning' it the latter is scaremongering.

I wonder if there is a single thing Remain has said that hasn't been dismissed as scaremongering or talking Britain down by leave.

But they do talk Britain down. By saying we need the EU for this and that is implying we couldn't do it without them. This is rubbish. Anything the EU can do, we can do just as well if not better.

Leave did make a booboo today with that veto thing and I hope it don't come back to haunt us.

---------- Post added at 17:59 ---------- Previous post was at 17:56 ----------

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Well if I listen to Cameron Damien turkey will become a member of the EU in a previous speech he was quite clear in wanting to pave roads from Brussels to Ankara and was quite enthusiastic about turkey joining the EU. Of course he is now saying differently as it's not a positive thing to pursue at the minute, but given the EU's desire to expand you honestly believe they are not going to admit turkey at some point in the next ten years?. This for me is another problem with the EU they are extremely selective on what they admit and what they tell any of us about future plans and pardon me for being cynical but that veto isn't worth the paper it's written on and once the issue of member states leaving the EU goes away so will that veto.

I asked before and Osem has also said if the EU is so great why are so many keen to get out and see it collapse surely we should all be happy and enthusiastic about the EU but we are not and as much as some would like to pretend it's only the UK that feels this way it isn't this movement is in many countries and growing. For me it isn't if the EU is going to collapse it's when and I'd much prefer the UK to have gotten out and be building rather then clinging onto the end with all the damage that will do.

As for fear there is no debate on who has used it most in this fiasco and we have weeks more of it to come I just hope enough don't fall for it and vote to remain as that will be more damaging for the UK and if we do vote to remain I think we will see quite quickly how much the EU really values the UK.

They wouldn't veto Turkey because they are an important strategic member of NATO. The least time they could join is about 15 years, 10 if they are fast tracked. Then prepare for a massive influx if we vote to stay. We won't get another say for 40 years or so.

Originally Posted by Damien

By what mechanism will get rid of the veto and, if it wasn't worth the paper it was written on, then why have we been able to use it before? Cameron has said he would like Turkey to join the EU as has Boris Johnson and other members of the Leave campaign before they decided it against it now. Either way the power would still be in Britain's hands to reject it if the Government actually wanted to do so and Turkey are still a long way away from even being able to apply.

Anyway it's fair enough for Leave to use if they wish. Remain would do so it if helped them.

Turkey applied in 1987 back in the old EEC days .Accession talks finally started in 2005 and given the immigration crisis i believe their membership will be escalated

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:47 ----------

Turkey has also met 65 of the 72 requirements for visa free travel throughout the EU .In March of this year they had only met 35 ,by May they had increased the requirement to 65 so very shortly we will be seeing thousands of Turkish immigrants entering the UK ,this talk of years is quite frankly baloney

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by martyh

shortly we will be seeing thousands of Turkish immigrants entering the UK ,this talk of years is quite frankly baloney

Only if remain win.

Originally Posted by pip08456

Only if remain win.

God forbid because right now being part of the EU is really not a good thing

Originally Posted by martyh

[/COLOR]Turkey has also met 65 of the 72 requirements for visa free travel throughout the EU .In March of this year they had only met 35 ,by May they had increased the requirement to 65 so very shortly we will be seeing thousands of Turkish immigrants entering the UK ,this talk of years is quite frankly

Turkey has also met 65 of the 72 requirements for visa free travel throughout the EU .In March of this year they had only met 35 ,by May they had increased the requirement to 65 so very shortly we will be seeing thousands of Turkish immigrants entering the UK ,this talk of years is quite frankly baloney

Visa free travel is just that, it's not a right to work or right to remain. It does not allow you to immigrate to an EU country.

Turkey are also very far behind the actual accession to the EU:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35832035

For a start, it is very difficult for would-be members to clear all the hurdles required. A country has to adopt and enforce all the current EU rules before it can be admitted to the bloc. EU rules are divided into 35 policy areas and in 10 years Turkey only managed to adopt the rules on one: science and research. In most other areas it has not even made a start.

[Osem]

Given the succession of nations, some far less suitable/ready than others, which have joined the EU over the last decade or two it beggars belief that anyone would think Turkey won't, sooner or later be admitted. A deal will be done because Turkey in the EU is what the EU wants. It's not what we should want but that probably won't stop our govt. being complicit in one way or another.

All this guff about 'tough conditions' makes me laugh - would they be conditions like those which allowed Greece and Cyprus to join the club? That went well didn't it.

The EU has plenty of previous for moving the goalposts to suit itself.

As regards visa free travel - I'm sure the plethora of secure borders throughout the EU will ensure that Turks who enter the EU all go home when they should and won't at all wind up within the black economy and later seek asylum under ECHR rules.

Originally Posted by Osem

All this guff about 'tough conditions' makes me laugh - would they be conditions like those which allowed Greece and Cyprus to join the club? That went well didn't it.

Well they've been talking for 10 years and haven't gotten anywhere so it's can't be that easy.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Chris

That seems like a reasonable warning to me.

Exactly
Since when is pointing out a worrying truth "fear mongering"?

Originally Posted by Damien

Visa free travel is just that, it's not a right to work or right to remain. It does not allow you to immigrate to an EU country.

Turkey are also very far behind the actual accession to the EU:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35832035

Visa free travel for turkey is still a threat to our country and probably the EU as a whole ,getting into the UK will be no problem for Turkish people once they are in Europe ,aside from that if remain campaign win we will be signed up to Schenghan so fast it will make your nose bleed ,probably the Euro as well