[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Why we should be paying anyone for their children is beyond me.

When you are elderly you will be dependent on other peoples children no matter how rich you are.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Mr K

When you are elderly you will be dependent on other peoples children no matter how rich you are.

So this is why we pay for them to be brought up in droves? This child benefit lark needs reining in.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Mr K

When you are elderly you will be dependent on other peoples children no matter how rich you are.

So basically we are hoping that they remember our largesse when our time of need comes? Fingers crossed, eh?

I'd rather get this fiasco over and done with get out of the EU and onto sorting out the many issue's the UK faces including real vocational training for people in this country. We all know Cameron isn't going to have this referendum in a fair open way as he is too big a supporter of the EU so in one way or another one vote will not decide this and we will have more till we vote the right way as per the EU's desire. Hell I wouldn't put it past the EU to have a way to block our exit if we do vote to come out and i don't have much faith in any of our current politicians to fight back too much.

[heero_yuy]

DAVID Cameron was last night accused of running scared after ditching a showdown with Eurosceptic ministers on the eve of his crunch EU summit.

It came as Brexit campaigners slammed Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond for claiming the EU would punish Britain if it decides to leave in the referendum.

The PM pulled a Cabinet meeting he was due to hold today where he was due to say when a gag on ministers will be lifted.

Operation scaremonger in top gear. This can only firm up the leave vote as the claims become increasingly bizarre and obviously desperate.

BRITAIN’S only German-born MP yesterday slated David Cameron’s EU renegotiation as “worthless”.

Gisela Stuart said Brussels will never return powers to Britain unless the PM secures treaty change for his reforms.

She said she was leaning to voting to leave.

Linky

Scaremongering on the other side too as Vote Leave frame the discussion as saving your hospital:

[ntluser]

It's interesting how others have responded to avoid the Brexit now that David Cameron has started his "renegotiations" with the EU.

Barack Obama wants a strong UK in a strong EU.

The Russians, it seems, would view a Brexit as a sign of weakness.

One member of the German government has threatened a trade war if the UK leaves the EU.

David Cameron tells us that there is a lot of willingness to try to meet the UK's limited "demands" but despite this it always seems to lead to a further watering down of the original limited proposals.

Before long the agreed proposals will not be worth having as so many are falling back on agreement being required from other EU leaders. The Conservatives are slowly selling out our sovereignty and capacity for independence. I could not imagine that happening under Margaret Thatcher.

You do wonder what happened to the Brtish Lion which forged the Commonwealth, trading with countries all over the world.

Our current politicians sadly do not seem to have the same capacity for independent thought and action as some of our courageous, pioneering forebears. Strange really given that the Conservatives used to be known as the Reforming Tories in the days when reform meant REAL reform and not some con being perpetrated on the British public.

The UK could survive outside the EU but I do wonder what would happen to the Euro if we left. What would the EU do with a Brexit black hole in its finances? Perhaps they would increase the contributions of other EU contributors. Or perhaps they would spend less.

The sad truth is that the EU want to keep us in because of our large contribution to the EU budget,money that could be better spent on the infrastructure of the UK.

Maybe then we can make a real effort to save our ailing industries rather than promising support which turns out to be financial support to find a new job elsewhere.

It will be very interesting to see what the EU leaders make of David Cameron's proposals though I can't help wishing that the other leaders would have the guts to reject them.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by ntluser

Maybe then we can make a real effort to save our ailing industries rather than promising support which turns out to be financial support to find a new job elsewhere.

That would be the better option.

It will be very interesting to see what the EU leaders make of David Cameron's proposals though I can't help wishing that the other leaders would have the guts to reject them.

That would be the ideal situation. Then the snake oil goes down the pan together with its salesman.

[Osem]

Negotiations over the UK's EU reform demands are at a "critical moment" and the risk of break-up "is real", EU Council president Donald Tusk has said.

He was speaking after holding talks with the Romanian and French presidents ahead of this week's crunch EU summit.

Mr Tusk, who is overseeing the negotiation, urged European leaders to handle the situation "with care".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35583140

They're understandably protective of their Euro-gravy train 'c u m'* train wreck.


(* Note to swear filter - preposition used to ​join two ​nouns, ​showing that a ​person or thing does two things or has two ​purposes...)

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/***

---------- Post added at 18:11 ---------- Previous post was at 18:04 ----------

Originally Posted by ntluser

It's interesting how others have responded to avoid the Brexit now that David Cameron has started his "renegotiations" with the EU.

Barack Obama wants a strong UK in a strong EU.

The Russians, it seems, would view a Brexit as a sign of weakness.

One member of the German government has threatened a trade war if the UK leaves the EU.

David Cameron tells us that there is a lot of willingness to try to meet the UK's limited "demands" but despite this it always seems to lead to a further watering down of the original limited proposals.

Before long the agreed proposals will not be worth having as so many are falling back on agreement being required from other EU leaders. The Conservatives are slowly selling out our sovereignty and capacity for independence. I could not imagine that happening under Margaret Thatcher.

You do wonder what happened to the Brtish Lion which forged the Commonwealth, trading with countries all over the world.

Our current politicians sadly do not seem to have the same capacity for independent thought and action as some of our courageous, pioneering forebears. Strange really given that the Conservatives used to be known as the Reforming Tories in the days when reform meant REAL reform and not some con being perpetrated on the British public.

The UK could survive outside the EU but I do wonder what would happen to the Euro if we left. What would the EU do with a Brexit black hole in its finances? Perhaps they would increase the contributions of other EU contributors. Or perhaps they would spend less.

The sad truth is that the EU want to keep us in because of our large contribution to the EU budget,money that could be better spent on the infrastructure of the UK.

Maybe then we can make a real effort to save our ailing industries rather than promising support which turns out to be financial support to find a new job elsewhere.

It will be very interesting to see what the EU leaders make of David Cameron's proposals though I can't help wishing that the other leaders would have the guts to reject them.

That'd depend on the industries - sadly, some of them just aren't competitive anymore and even if we could subsidise them it'd be money down the drain. Better to create new and sustainable jobs where that's possible.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Osem

(* Note to swear filter - preposition used to ​join two ​nouns, ​showing that a ​person or thing does two things or has two ​purposes...)

Damn that American dictionary.

That'd depend on the industries - sadly, some of them just aren't competitive anymore and even if we could subsidise them it'd be money down the drain. Better to create new and sustainable jobs where that's possible.

Whilst subsidising dying industries is a mugs game there are occasions when some strategic help could get a business back on its feet.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Damn that American dictionary.



Whilst subsidising dying industries is a mugs game there are occasions when some strategic help could get a business back on its feet.

I'd agree and we ought to be creating decent jobs so far as possible, especially for skilled people who're capable of adapting their abilities to suit new industries. There's a general lack of foresight and longer term planning in these matters.

[heero_yuy]

GEORGE Osborne is facing demands to rule out spending any taxpayer cash on private spin doctors during the EU referendum.

A row erupted after we revealed the Treasury spent thousands hiring controversial lobbyists to drum up negative stories – nicknamed “Project Fear” – during 2014’s Scottish independence referendum.

Now Eurosceptics are demanding the Chancellor promise not to use the same tactics again.

Linky

He will. You can bet every dirty trick in the book will be deployed.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by ntluser

Before long the agreed proposals will not be worth having as so many are falling back on agreement being required from other EU leaders. The Conservatives are slowly selling out our sovereignty and capacity for independence. I could not imagine that happening under Margaret Thatcher.

Broadly agree with everything else you said apart from this.

It was always entertaining watching Maggie handbag those European leaders, wasn't it? Except that within all that "no to Delores guff" she shouted about, she signed every European treaty put in front of her.... Don't forget it was Thatcher who put us in the pre-euro ERM - Exchange Rate Mechanism.

She wasn't as anti-European as everyone thought!

It is generally accepted that Thatcher capitulated to Europhiles in her cabinet who wanted in to the ERM, and always regretted acceding to it.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

It is generally accepted that Thatcher capitulated to Europhiles in her cabinet who wanted in to the ERM, and always regretted acceding to it.

ERM, Euro, EU - it's all the same, not in the UK's interests.