Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
01-03-2015, 23:19
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#211
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step on my trip
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
So you are asking me to explain something personal to me and my family but without using any personal contexts. Are you genuinely unable to see how you're trying to shoehorn us in to answering things on your own terms?
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it is a simple question. definitions are definitions - they are not personally malleable, they do not change meaning depending on what side of a fence you sit. the same definition applies to me as it does to you. I have answered without prejudice towards or against my viewpoint, sticking strictly, i believe, to the question and it's own context. feel free to ask me a question back, once you have answered mine.
in fact, I open the question to anyone who wishes to answer. it would be very interesting to see what we get.
---------- Post added at 23:14 ---------- Previous post was at 23:14 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Idi, I am sorry, I reject utterly the premise of your question. For me, this is life, and a simple, natural and truly ancient process of fulfiling my duty and privilege as a father by bringing my children up as I believe best. I'm not prepared to engage with the subject of my children, my relationship with them, and our relationship with God and our faith, in the terms you are requesting.
That obviously is not the answer you're looking for, but then I was never very good at giving only a 'yes' or a 'no' just because it was what someone else wanted.  |
you are right. it is not the answer I am looking for, but it is the one I expected. I know it is an uncomfortable question, because it does force you to question the techniques at play. I get that. but for me, the fact both yourself and Russ have avoided answering speaks volumes to me. but that is only my opinion.
---------- Post added at 23:19 ---------- Previous post was at 23:14 ----------
If I may add, this has been an excellent thread. Kudos to Mr A. for this one. it's a shame that it has ended without all questions being answered, but as always, when religion is involved, it can become uncomfortable for some. I hope nobody has been offended or upset by any posts here.
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01-03-2015, 23:20
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#212
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Trollsplatter
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Idi ... Reverse psychology is wasted on me. You are free to construe my reply any way you like, however, if you're interested in what I actually think or feel on a subject, you can, genuinely, see it in the words I have chosen to use. My view of the subject truly is as I just described it, and I promise you faithfully, nothing anyone had said in this thread (or anywhere, ever) has made me feel even remotely uncomfortable with the way my wife and I have brought our children up to believe that Jesus died for them, and to bring their prayers to him. I am absolutely convinced that that is the right thing to do.
And now I really am going for a shower.
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01-03-2015, 23:23
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#213
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step on my trip
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Idi ... Reverse psychology is wasted on me. You are free to construe my reply any way you like, however, if you're interested in what I actually think or feel on a subject, you can, genuinely, see it in the words I have chosen to use. My view of the subject truly is as I just described it, and I promise you faithfully, nothing anyone had said in this thread (or anywhere, ever) has made me feel even remotely uncomfortable with the way my wife and I have brought our children up to believe that Jesus died for them, and to bring their prayers to him. I am absolutely convinced that that is the right thing to do.
And now I really am going for a shower.
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I have no doubt you do believe it is the right thing to do. that has never been the point of the thread at any stage for me, personally. but then, I have also clarified that on many an occasion.
I thank you for your time and constructive input. have a good night. 
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“Most people don’t listen to understand. They listen to reply. Be different.”
- Jefferson Fisher
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02-03-2015, 07:11
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#214
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vox populi vox dei
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
well having read through all that what else can i say but the cycle of indoctrination just passes on through the generations 
but to be fair after 16 or so years of having god forced on them the unfortunate offspring get to make up their own minds [if there's any mind or self will left ]then they can choose to leave the fold or start making plans for the next unfortunate generation ....
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02-03-2015, 09:35
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#215
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The Invisible Woman
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L
This may be a bit OTT but is of the same thinking and reasoning.
isn't that the same as saying you can abuse a child either sexually or mentally until they reach a certain age where they can make up their own mind as to whether to accept or reject it?
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Trust you to really try and muddy the waters in this manner.. 
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02-03-2015, 09:47
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#216
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J
Trust you to really try and muddy the waters in this manner.. |
You know I'm right though.
you know it's the same thing that you're saying.
but you have the option of saying "this is different. this has Jesus and harp playing angels in it"
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02-03-2015, 10:38
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#217
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
I’d say children need to be protected from any kind of destructive indoctrination whether religion, atheism, sectarianism, racism, sexism etc.
Dawkins singling out religion was quite quaint of him and it’s touching to know he never has the subject far from his mind. Some of the most devout Christians I’ve heard of started out as staunch atheists so there’s hope yet. What a catch he’d turn out to be
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02-03-2015, 12:04
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#218
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Dawkins singling out religion was quite quaint of him and it’s touching to know he never has the subject far from his mind. Some of the most devout Christians I’ve heard of started out as staunch atheists so there’s hope yet. What a catch he’d turn out to be |
That's the spirit Russ.
New day. different angle on it
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02-03-2015, 12:47
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#219
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The Invisible Woman
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
I’d say children need to be protected from any kind of destructive indoctrination whether religion, atheism, sectarianism, racism, sexism etc.
Dawkins singling out religion was quite quaint of him and it’s touching to know he never has the subject far from his mind. Some of the most devout Christians I’ve heard of started out as staunch atheists so there’s hope yet. What a catch he’d turn out to be |
Like Malcolm Muggeridge?
http://www.crisismagazine.com/1984/c...ion-of-a-cynic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Muggeridge
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Hell is empty and all the devils are here. Shakespeare..
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02-03-2015, 12:50
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#220
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Seems to keep coming round that bringing up children in a religious belief is indoctrination but bringing them up with no belief isn't.
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02-03-2015, 13:22
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#221
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The Dark Satanic Mills
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Bottom line is people are free to bring up their kids any way they damn well please,as long as it is within the law.
Now people may have an opinion on that, but that's all it is.
Forget religion for a minute, and I have friends that have a different ethos on how to bring up their kids around discipline, routine, diet, etc etc.
There's no "right way" to bring up kids, there's only the best way you know.
If religion is a part of that, so be it. It's not for me, I don't agree with it, but it matters not a jot and it shouldn't do for anyone else either.
As mentioned, once the child reaches a certain age it will make its own mind up, about a great many things.
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02-03-2015, 14:59
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#222
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step on my trip
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh
Seems to keep coming round that bringing up children in a religious belief is indoctrination but bringing them up with no belief isn't.
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A good point.
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“Most people don’t listen to understand. They listen to reply. Be different.”
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02-03-2015, 16:35
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#223
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vox populi vox dei
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh
Seems to keep coming round that bringing up children in a religious belief is indoctrination but bringing them up with no belief isn't.
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repent now
---------- Post added at 16:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:16 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
I’d say children need to be protected from any kind of destructive indoctrination whether religion, atheism, sectarianism, racism, sexism etc.
Dawkins singling out religion was quite quaint of him and it’s touching to know he never has the subject far from his mind. Some of the most devout Christians I’ve heard of started out as staunch atheists so there’s hope yet. What a catch he’d turn out to be |
but what if he tried to commit suicide because a rabid religionist got to him .
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To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
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02-03-2015, 17:28
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#224
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Not ‘rabid’, but ‘fundamentalist’
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02-03-2015, 22:39
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#225
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[NTHW] pc clan
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Re: Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
There's no "right way" to bring up kids, there's only the best way you know.
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True, but there are many wrong ways to bring kids up. To believe in a god is one of them imo 
---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:38 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh
Seems to keep coming round that bringing up children in a religious belief is indoctrination but bringing them up with no belief isn't.
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Spot on.
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