Richard Dawkins says children need to be ‘protected’ from religion.

[Mr Angry]

From the Irish Times.

"Children need to be “protected” from religious indoctrination in schools, biologist and atheist campaigner Richard Dawkins has said, backing a campaign by Atheist Ireland to overhaul our education system.

Speaking to The Irish Times in advance of a public talk at Trinity College Dublin on Tuesday evening, Prof Dawkins said: “There is a balancing act and you have to balance the rights of parents and the rights of children and I think the balance has swung too far towards parents…

“Children do need to be protected so that they can have a proper education and not be indoctrinated in whatever religion their parents happen to have been brought up in.”


Given the seemingly increasing frequency of allegations concerning radicalisation in schools it would appear he may well have a valid point.


Oirish toimes

[Ignitionnet]

He may well have a good point. While of course most faith schools don't indoctrinate and deliver an appropriate education there are it seems some that do which isn't acceptable.

It's fair to say this would meet huge resistance, especially from one particular religion, many of whose adherents appear to consider it a requirement to indoctrinate their children at as early an age as is feasible and would wish to see it happen both inside and outside the classroom.

[Russ]

Perhaps humans need to be protected from the ignorant Richard Dawkins. Such arrogance for him to suggest he can tell me the best way to bring my children up. I'm surprised he's not campaigning against parents discussing faith with our children in the privacy of our own homes.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Russ

Perhaps humans need to be protected from the ignorant Richard Dawkins. Such arrogance for him to suggest he can tell me the best way to bring my children up. I'm surprised he's not campaigning against parents discussing faith with our children in the privacy of our own homes.

I wonder if he realises every time he opens his mouth he drives people towards religion not away from it.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Russ

Perhaps humans need to be protected from the ignorant Richard Dawkins. Such arrogance for him to suggest he can tell me the best way to bring my children up. I'm surprised he's not campaigning against parents discussing faith with our children in the privacy of our own homes.

Who does tell you the best way to bring your children up, Russ? Discussing faith is diffrent from teaching faith.

[papa smurf]

now this has the possibility of being a descent debate as long as god doesn't instruct one of his botherers to shut it down .

i think the prof has a point "Children need to be “protected” from religious indoctrination ..

---------- Post added at 07:33 ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 ----------

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

He may well have a good point. While of course most faith schools don't indoctrinate and deliver an appropriate education there are it seems some that do which isn't acceptable.

It's fair to say this would meet huge resistance, especially from one particular religion, many of whose adherents appear to consider it a requirement to indoctrinate their children at as early an age as is feasible and would wish to see it happen both inside and outside the classroom.

i think that scenario covers all[or most] religions they all[or most] get at the kids as early as possible .
i put a couple of or most's in there for the pedantic peters

[Stephen]

I find this guy to be a total idiot.

I went to a catholic school, but we were still taught a bit about other religions. Most people are clever enough to make their own minds up and not be brainwashed.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Who does tell you the best way to bring your children up, Russ? Discussing faith is diffrent from teaching faith.

What is said in the article is quite limited in scope and appears centered around something you'd hope the man would know about, biology.

I presume it's the thing where creationists indoctrinate their kids to disbelieve all the science, utterly overwhelming as the evidence for it is, and instead believe whatever their parents' faith tells them to.

Touches onto a wider point about rational thinking and questioning dogma I imagine. It's quite a depressing sight seeing intelligent young people regurgitate 'God/Allah/Yahweh did it' and their evidence for it being 'because my holy book says so'. Pretty much coming down to 'because my parents told me so'. Since when did kids past a certain age believe their parents?

---------- Post added at 08:26 ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Stephen

I find this guy to be a total idiot.

I went to a catholic school, but we were still taught a bit about other religions. Most people are clever enough to make their own minds up and not be brainwashed.

Context - the man is in Northern Ireland. In Northern Ireland rather strong political forces want to get creationism into schools and the education system is absurdly heavily polarised. The vast majority of schools are either Catholic or Protestant faith schools and there are relatively few where children from Catholic and Protestant families mix.

In the Irish Republic secular schools barely exist. They're about 1% of the total.

Most adult people are clever enough to make their own minds up, this can't be said for young children who are, necessarily, impressionable.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Most people are clever enough to make their own minds up and not be brainwashed.

You sure? Have you seen how many people are still happy to vote Labour

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

You sure? Have you seen how many people are still happy to vote Labour

Yeh. the ones who didn't get brainwashed by Dave

But yeh. he has a point. children do need to be 'protected' from religion.
they don't know whether they have a choice. whether it's the 'law' whether they have to do it from such an early age.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I wonder if he realises every time he opens his mouth he drives people towards religion not away from it.

I doubt it, because he doesn't

---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------

Originally Posted by Stephen

I find this guy to be a total idiot.

I went to a catholic school, but we were still taught a bit about other religions. Most people are clever enough to make their own minds up and not be brainwashed.

I went to a catholic school.

and I was taught that god exists, that I must believe in him, that I must confess my sins.

I soon realised it was all codswallop, around age 7/8, when my teachers and priests couldn't answer a few questions from me.

They tried to indoctrinate me into catholicism. and failed. But they weren't hard line. I bet there are some faith schools were it is really drummed into kids- which is wrong.

What faith you decide to follow, if you desire to follow one, is a decision you should come to alone.

[tweetiepooh]

This sort of debate seems to always get down to "religion" is rubbish and needs to be kept private unless it's a secular teaching. Effectively Dawkins wants to have his doctrine as the only one allowed to be taught and tries to tie his to science and others as opposed to science.

As to faith schools, if you don't want your kids to be brought up that way don't send them there. If that school overtly states such teaching is part of their ethos then you can't complain that they teach that way. Children will ask why and as already stated if they can't give good reasons children do see that and get turned off.

Parents will want their children to follow their own faith, that's pretty natural. That includes secular positions.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I wonder if he realises every time he opens his mouth he drives people towards religion not away from it.

He's preaching to the converted...

A lot of this discussion really depends on what the Dork meant by "indoctrination". I see several posters assuming the discussion to be about the teaching of religious ideas within science lessons in schools. However, Dawkins clearly touched on parents, and therefore the private relationships that exist within a family home.

It is not the State's job to legislate for private belief and it is conceited nonsense to claim that it is even possible to bring up a child in a moral vacuum. Children learn from their parents, by what their parents do and say to one another and to other people outside the home, as much as (if not more than) they do by what the parents say directly to their children. If a child is brought up in an evangelical Christian home, then that will be the child's outlook, at least until that child is old enough as a teenager to begin to resist it or embrace it for themselves.

[alanbjames]

I disagree they need to be protected. What they need to be taught is about life in the 21st century and how to fit in with their religion.

I had a friend who died 7 years ago who was gay and he had 2 children with a lesbian friend and they were bringing up the kids as Catholic as they both had catholic roots from Ireland and one of these kids happens to be my God Daughter. Even though they are Catholic they will be taught about all aspects of life including sex education when old enough which will include LGBTQIA.