[Update] Cameron promises EU referendum by October 2017

Originally Posted by martyh

They can however claim jobseekers ,use the NHS and schools .I realise that it is not simply a case of foreigners turning up and taking our money but outside of the EU we would have a lot more freedom to turn foreign workers away and also asylum seekers who do get housing and benefits

I don't think they can claim jobseekers until they've worked..

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think they can claim jobseekers until they've worked..

they can't claim income based jobseekers
ordinary jobseekers is open to anyone even school leavers who have never worked

Originally Posted by martyh

they can't claim income based jobseekers
ordinary jobseekers is open to anyone even school leavers who have never worked

I didn't think there was ordinary or income based. I thought income based was the lower, standard, one (it's means tested based on income) and the other was contribution based where you need to have paid NI for a x amount of years.

Originally Posted by Damien

I didn't think there was ordinary or income based. I thought income based was the lower, standard, one (it's means tested based on income) and the other was contribution based where you need to have paid NI for a x amount of years.

I'm not sure how it works to be honest but as far as i know EU/EEA nationals have the same rights as British nationals aside from benefits that need NI contributions.Lets face it if they didn't get benefits the streets would be full of starving immigrants

Originally Posted by martyh

I'm not sure how it works to be honest but as far as i know EU/EEA nationals have the same rights as British nationals aside from benefits that need NI contributions.Lets face it if they didn't get benefits the streets would be full of starving immigrants

The links before suggest they only have the same rights after they've started working for at least three months with more and more of the same rights become available the longer they work.

So are we only concentrating on benefits and immigration and emigration or is there any discussion to be had about the financial implications for our economy?

Say something about the economy and we'll see.

Originally Posted by Damien

The links before suggest they only have the same rights after they've started working for at least three months with more and more of the same rights become available the longer they work.

when i looked i found conflicting information ,i got confused ,my head exploded ,i stopped looking .How on earth anyone is supposed to keep track of this idiotically confusing system is beyond me

Originally Posted by Maggy J

So are we only concentrating on benefits and immigration and emigration or is there any discussion to be had about the financial implications for our economy?

I don't see how you can avoid discussing immigration and benefits to foreign nationals in a referendum on leaving the EU thread as that is the first thing people who get to vote on the matter will be thinking of .
Imagine how many jobs would be available if foreign workers had not taken them ,imagine how reduced the benefits bill would be if we weren't supporting foreign workers on low wages ,Imagine how much the country would save if we weren't ploughing billions into the EU .Rightly or wrongly that is what joe bloggs will base their decision on so you can rest assured that every media outlet with an agenda will be pushing that agenda using immigration and asylum until the vote happens

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by marty

when i looked i found conflicting information ,i got confused ,my head exploded ,i stopped looking .How on earth anyone is supposed to keep track of this idiotically confusing system is beyond me





I don't see how you can avoid discussing immigration and benefits to foreign nationals in a referendum on leaving the EU thread as that is the first thing people who get to vote on the matter will be thinking of .
Imagine how many jobs would be available if foreign workers had not taken them ,imagine how reduced the benefits bill would be if we weren't supporting foreign workers on low wages ,Imagine how much the country would save if we weren't ploughing billions into the EU .Rightly or wrongly that is what joe bloggs will base their decision on so you can rest assured that every media outlet with an agenda will be pushing that agenda using immigration and asylum until the vote happens

Indeed you can bet your bottom dollar that the argument for and against our membership of the EU will revolve around immigration and benefits. There will be groups who will intentional exaggerate both sides of the argument as fits there agenda.

Originally Posted by martyh

when i looked i found conflicting information ,i got confused ,my head exploded ,i stopped looking .How on earth anyone is supposed to keep track of this idiotically confusing system is beyond me

It is far too complicated, on that we agree. From all the links it would seem that EU citizens are not entitled to benefits until they've worked and then it gradually increases until they get the benefits of any British Citizen.

I think they is an obsessive focus on benefits anyway. We seem obsessed with benefits and people taking advantage of it but in the larger benefit it's quite small. The largest expenses by far are pensions, elderly care and the NHS. However these are political nightmares so everyone focuses on benefits which seems an easy target.

I don't think leaving the EU will impact at all on benefits.

Originally Posted by Damien

It is far too complicated, on that we agree. From all the links it would seem that EU citizens are not entitled to benefits until they've worked and then it gradually increases until they get the benefits of any British Citizen.

I think they is an obsessive focus on benefits anyway. We seem obsessed with benefits and people taking advantage of it but in the larger benefit it's quite small. The largest expenses by far are pensions, elderly care and the NHS. However these are political nightmares so everyone focuses on benefits which seems an easy target.

I don't think leaving the EU will impact at all on benefits.

That's probably about right ,certainly how it should be and to be honest benefits to EU immigrants are not top of my list of things i hate about the EU .I worry about the jobs that should be done by British nationals but are done by migrant workers ,i see a lot in the food industry and construction .Why Britain doesn't have workers to take those positions is beyond me .If we can stop the inflow of migrant workers and at least give our own young workers a chance to fill the jobs then we can tackle the low wages and dependency on benefits to make the wage from those jobs liveable but we cannot do that if we remain in the EU

Originally Posted by Chris

Say something about the economy and we'll see.

Just hoping it's not going turn out to be the interminable immigration and benefits cheats thread that EU threads seems to generate.

I'm just wondering how much this could cost us and how it could possibly help as we seem to be entering a triple dip recession.Can we afford to be out of the EU?

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Just hoping it's not going turn out to be the interminable immigration and benefits cheats thread that EU threads seems to generate.

I'm just wondering how much this could cost us and how it could possibly help as we seem to be entering a triple dip recession.Can we afford to be out of the EU?

Maybe being in the EU is the reason why we can't get out of recession

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by martyh

Maybe being in the EU is the reason why we can't get out of recession

My personal feeling is that Labour want us in the EU so if they get back power at the next election they can SPEND SPEND SPEND put us even further in the brown stuff and then run to the EU and ask for a bailout.

We are not in the Euro thankfully and now we just need to get out of Germany's little pet project called "Euro domination the financial way" . The sooner we get back control of our own country the better.

[Angua]

Deliberate avoidance by the government. A referendum will only happen in 2017 if the Tories are re-elected in 2015.

Meanwhile the offer may take some support from UKIP, whilst being fully aware Labour (who may well win in 2015) will not allow a referendum.

Sadly papers such as the Daily Wail will continue to confuse, obfuscate and mislead over all the different aspects of Europe to generate more jingoistic anti Europe feeling.