Students Rioting in London.

Originally Posted by denphone

But the fact remains he still threw the item and that is violent behavior.

I am arguing that the sentence was excessive, not that he didn't commit a crime.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Damien

I am arguing that the sentence was excessive, not that he didn't commit a crime.

l am sorry Damian but l do not think the sentence was harsh enough when you take off the 50% remission for the sentence.

Originally Posted by denphone

l am sorry Damian but l do not think the sentence was harsh enough when you take off the 50% remission for the sentence.

Damien. Yes, You disagree. That's the way these things go.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by denphone

Not in my mind as nobody can excuse his violent and disrespectful behavior in this shocking episode.

I don't think anyone is, just trying to bring it into perspective.

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

Originally Posted by Pauls9

Umm - if you're driving a car slowly through a crowd and a large black object suddenly comes into view heading towards you, what's the chance of you accidentally swerving and injuring someone who's leaning on your vehicle? Or do you realise it's only a plastic bin and don't react?

It wasn't coming "towards" them. At worse it just bounced of the boot. So I doubt the driver had much time to react at all. He wouldn't have even seen it, more like just heard the thud when it came from behind. Also I am pretty sure that the royal cavalcade employs pretty solid and reliable drivers who are trained to cope with many situations, far worse than than a civil disturbance.

I am not condoning his behaviour, just countering some rather silly overreactions.

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

l am sorry Damian but l do not think the sentence was harsh enough when you take off the 50% remission for the sentence.

But the sentencing is inconsistent with what see in other cases. If we were to apply such precedents as this, the courts and prisons would be overflowing more than they are now. The yobs, who cause worse on a Friday and Saturday night, in city centres throughout the country, end up with a nominal fine and/or a few hours CPO,; very rarely are they sent to prison and almost never for sixteen months.

[Derek]

A large number of the people arrested at Fortnum and Mason have had their charges dropped.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14189892

Alison Saunders, chief crown prosecutor of CPS London, said: "I have decided that the cases against 109 individuals who were charged after protesting in Fortnum and Mason on 26 March should be discontinued.

"However, we will continue to pursue the other 30 cases through the judicial process."

The chief prosecutor said there was sufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction for the offence of aggravated trespass against all the defendants, but decided a prosecution was not necessarily in the public interest.

---------- Post added at 18:25 ---------- Previous post was at 18:24 ----------

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But the sentencing is inconsistent with what see in other cases. If we were to apply such precedents as this, the courts and prisons would be overflowing more than they are now. The yobs, who cause worse on a Friday and Saturday night, in city centres throughout the country, end up with a nominal fine and/or a few hours CPO,; very rarely are they sent to prison and almost never for sixteen months.

It's very consistent with sentences for other charges of violent disorder. Acting in a group for a common illegal goal will always attract a higher sentence than single incidents.

[Sparkle]

Following the mass arrest, activists claimed they had been "tricked", as they said Clark had assured them that after leaving the store they would be directed to the nearest tube stations and free to go home. Their claims were backed by video footage obtained by the Guardian, which shows Clark denying that anyone would be kettled or detained after leaving the store. It was not known at the time whether Clark was aware that the activists would in fact be arrested.

The Guardian can now reveal that the police admit deception in the lead-up to the mass arrest.

Met police in lying shocker!

Originally Posted by Sparkle

Met police in lying shocker!

stupid students in falling for the "oldest trick in the book" shocker

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Derek

It's very consistent with sentences for other charges of violent disorder. Acting in a group for a common illegal goal will always attract a higher sentence than single incidents.

Having looked up a couple of cases, it does look like you're right in terms of consistency. What strikes me as odd however, is that generally, in cases like this, the risk of re-offending is relatively low, compared to the yobs that terrorize the city centre on a weekend.

Take Fernie Francis for instance. Twelve months in prison for throwing two sticks used for placards at the police. I'm not condoning it, but is anyone really better of by sending this lad to prison? Is he a threat to the public? Most likely, far less so than a lot of the people getting ****ed on a weekend night. Same with Charlie Gilmour imo. Proper morons that throw fire extinguishers off roofs endangering people's lives, send them to prison by all means, but I fail to see why this can't be handled with community service that can actually entail an element of education, at least in cases where it's a first offence.

Originally Posted by danielf

Having looked up a couple of cases, it does look like you're right in terms of consistency. What strikes me as odd however, is that generally, in cases like this, the risk of re-offending is relatively low, compared to the yobs that terrorize the city centre on a weekend.

Take Fernie Francis for instance. Twelve months in prison for throwing two sticks used for placards at the police. I'm not condoning it, but is anyone really better of by sending this lad to prison? Is he a threat to the public? Most likely, far less so than a lot of the people getting ****ed on a weekend night. Same with Charlie Gilmour imo. Proper morons that throw fire extinguishers off roofs endangering people's lives, send them to prison by all means, but I fail to see why this can't be handled with community service that can actually entail an element of education, at least in cases where it's a first offence.

I have to agree ,i am wondering what manner of violent thug was spared a fully justified jail term because his cell was taken by gilmore .I would far sooner numpties like gilmore were given humiliating community service (and forced to do it)than some hardened crim get let out early or not get jail at all just so a cell can be made available for the likes of gilmore .I am thinking that all this jail term will do is turn gilmore into some sort of student hero because he went to jail ,took one for the team so to speak

[Derek]

Originally Posted by danielf

Having looked up a couple of cases, it does look like you're right in terms of consistency. What strikes me as odd however, is that generally, in cases like this, the risk of re-offending is relatively low, compared to the yobs that terrorize the city centre on a weekend.
.
I'm not condoning it, but is anyone really better of by sending this lad to prison? Is he a threat to the public?

It's a deterrent effect. If people see that they can go on a wrecking spree during a protest and get away with a slap on the wrist then the next time a protest happens more and more people will get involved.

If when it starts getting a bit feisty they think "Hang on a sec, I might end up as the prison bike if I keep this up" then its job done.

I'd say the sentences for general crimes are too lenient, not that the sentences for violent disorder are too harsh. Mind you I am a fully paid up member of the hang em and flog em brigade.

---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

because he went to jail ,took one for the team so to speak

He'll be taking more than one for the team.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Derek

It's a deterrent effect. If people see that they can go on a wrecking spree during a protest and get away with a slap on the wrist then the next time a protest happens more and more people will get involved.

If when it starts getting a bit feisty they think "Hang on a sec, I might end up as the prison bike if I keep this up" then its job done.

I'd say the sentences for general crimes are too lenient, not that the sentences for violent disorder are too harsh. Mind you I am a fully paid up member of the hang em and flog em brigade.

Yeah, and I'm not. I don't really buy into the deterrent thing. The risk of getting caught is a bigger deterrent than the punishment imo. Either way, I think it's stupid to send people to prison for a moment of insanity that has had no real consequences, and never put people in harm's way. It's also a waste of money that could be spent on more worthwhile things. Isn't that exactly what community service is for?

deterants only work if people think before they commit the crime and in the case of the student riots we are talking about students ..and a lot of heat of the moment stuff....and students

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by martyh

stupid students in falling for the "oldest trick in the book" shocker

If you're quite rightly implying that people shouldn't believe anything the police say, then we're on the same page.

Originally Posted by danielf

Yeah, and I'm not. I don't really buy into the deterrent thing. The risk of getting caught is a bigger deterrent than the punishment imo. Either way, I think it's stupid to send people to prison for a moment of insanity that has had no real consequences, and never put people in harm's way. It's also a waste of money that could be spent on more worthwhile things. Isn't that exactly what community service is for?

I'm not in the hang em high brigade ... But neither do I buy the claim of "moment of insanity" when someone has gone to a protest kitted out with a mask and gloves. He obviously intended to do things that might make his identity of interest to the boys in blue. And his "moment" was caught on several cameras, in several locations, over an extended period of time during the day.

He went intent on hell raising and took steps not to get caught. Personally I am very comfortable with the principle of him being made an example of.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Derek

He'll be taking more than one for the team.

Indeed

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

He went intent on hell raising and took steps not to get caught. Personally I am very comfortable with the principle of him being made an example of.

As am i