NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

As has been said above by Chris whilst at school the teachers are the parents and have the same rights in most matters ,this new bill will remove any confusion and re-inforce the authority of teachers .

Do you think that the kids themselves will allow it even? the first thing that will come of the power to "give me your phone I want to read your messages and look at your pictures" is either violence or accusations of the teacher doing it for perverted reasons.

kids or not. you don't give 'teachers' the power to read the data on a kids phone.
if they have strong suspicions then get the police involved.

It will never happen anyway.

[Jon T]

Originally Posted by Chris

Teachers act [I]in loco parentis

Don't know about that one, far too many things a kid does at school needs parental permission for it to be as straight forward as that.

If no extra legislation is needed, and the inspection of kids phones is brought in, then it'll be something else that's used when it suits, and ignored when it's inconvenient, just like every other anti-bullying strategy that's come and gone.

My mum has recently retired from teaching, she thinks this is a dreadful idea. It's dangerous on both legal and moral grounds.

Originally Posted by Gary L

Do you think that the kids themselves will allow it even? the first thing that will come of the power to "give me your phone I want to read your messages and look at your pictures" is either violence or accusations of the teacher doing it for perverted reasons.

kids or not. you don't give 'teachers' the power to read the data on a kids phone.
if they have strong suspicions then get the police involved.

It will never happen anyway.

I think you missed the point Gary ,the teachers already have the right as pointed out by Chris so the childrens permission is not required .If children use violence against the teacher to protect the dodgy content then usually the police are involved anyway .
No-one is suggesting that teachers will arbitrarily be confiscating phones to have look at photos and messages in the staff room ,there will doubt be strict controls over who will be granted access and the reasons used to justify it

[Caff]

Originally Posted by Gary L

If anyone agrees that 'teachers' should have the power to go through a persons phone, and delete what they want to. then that says a lot about that person.

if I was a pupil I'd pin protect the phone. let them beat me till I give in.
I'd put pictures of my sister in it too.

Never watched over a child's shoulder whilst they surf then? Or had to clean up the HD afterwards until you are certain that they can show themselves to behave responsibly?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Caff

Never watched over a child's shoulder whilst they surf then? Or had to clean up the HD afterwards until you are certain that they can show themselves to behave responsibly?

Are we talking porn here?
that's where it will be going one step further from the original thing. I've deleted pics of your girlfriend and some of them saucy texts she sent to you whilst I went through your phone.

Originally Posted by Jon T

Don't know about that one, far too many things a kid does at school needs parental permission for it to be as straight forward as that.

If no extra legislation is needed, and the inspection of kids phones is brought in, then it'll be something else that's used when it suits, and ignored when it's inconvenient, just like every other anti-bullying strategy that's come and gone.

My mum has recently retired from teaching, she thinks this is a dreadful idea. It's dangerous on both legal and moral grounds.

as far as i know most of the things that require a parents permission are for activities outside school hours so are not covered by in loco parentis


I agree that it could be dangerous on legal and moral grounds but if it is restricted to the head teacher only and for very specific reasons such as bulying or even watching porn in class then i wouldn't have a problem ,because as a parent if i found that on my sons phone i would remove it

[Caff]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Are we talking porn here?
that's where it will be going one step further from the original thing. I've deleted pics of your girlfriend and some of them saucy texts she sent to you whilst I went through your phone.

That's beyond banter.
Speak for yourself.
I was talking about watching over young 'un's shoulders to make sure they surf safely and can interact responsibly, as you well know.

Originally Posted by Jon T

Don't know about that one, far too many things a kid does at school needs parental permission for it to be as straight forward as that.

If no extra legislation is needed, and the inspection of kids phones is brought in, then it'll be something else that's used when it suits, and ignored when it's inconvenient, just like every other anti-bullying strategy that's come and gone.

My mum has recently retired from teaching, she thinks this is a dreadful idea. It's dangerous on both legal and moral grounds.

As Marty says, regular school activities don't require parental permission, only those things that are beyond routine, like school trips, medical inspections/injections etc.

The thing about the proposed law is that it seems to be intended as clarifying what teachers are able to do, not compelling them to do anything. If NASUWT members or any of your mum's colleagues don't wish to make use of the option when dealing with cyber-bullying then there's no reason why they should.

I'm somewhat suspicious of the Union's intervention to be honest. It appears to be motivated by a desire to make sure that teacher's duties are as narrowly defined as possible rather than giving them freedom to do whatever is necessary to maintain good order at school, for the benefit of the majority of pupils.

[Caff]

[QUOTE=Chris;35200808]As Marty says, regular school activities don't require parental permission, only those things that are beyond routine, like school trips, medical inspections/injections etc.

The thing about the proposed law is that it seems to be intended as clarifying what teachers are able to do, not compelling them to do anything. If NASUWT members or any of your mum's colleagues don't wish to make use of the option when dealing with cyber-bullying then there's no reason why they should.

I'm somewhat suspicious of the Union's intervention to be honest. It appears to be motivated by a desire to make sure that teacher's duties are as narrowly defined as possible rather than giving them freedom to do whatever is necessary to maintain good order at school, for the benefit of the majority of pupils.[/QUOTE]

Sadly - I have to agree.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Caff

That's beyond banter.
Speak for yourself.
I was talking about watching over young 'un's shoulders to make sure they surf safely and can interact responsibly, as you well know.

No I didn't. I thought you was talking about porn.

anyway 'anti-cyber bullying' 'anti-terrorist' all phrases to give an excuse to control people.

Controlling or discipling children is inherently different than controlling adults. 'anti-bullying' and 'anti-terrorism' are so utterly different that it's pointless trying to discuss them in the same context.

Originally Posted by Gary L

No I didn't. I thought you was talking about porn.

anyway 'anti-cyber bullying' 'anti-terrorist' all phrases to give an excuse to control people.

so you dissagree with those measures on the basis that they are trying to control people ,or is that the foil hat talking again

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Chris

Controlling or discipling children is inherently different than controlling adults.

You have to remember that a boy say 14 or 15 years of age having pictures of his girlfriend on his phone are not illegal. but will they fall into the 'innapropriate' and to be deleted?

pics of any woman even.
I know this is in the guise of 'anti cyber bullying' but we all know that this will be part of what's classed as innapropriate. and we should mind our own business.

unless we really are going to down the road of teachers being parents.

'anti-bullying' and 'anti-terrorism' are so utterly different that it's pointless trying to discuss them in the same context.

They are both the same in the way that the powers involved are of control.

Originally Posted by Gary L

You have to remember that a boy say 14 or 15 years of age having pictures of his girlfriend on his phone are not illegal. but will they fall into the 'innapropriate' and to be deleted?

pics of any woman even.
I know this is in the guise of 'anti cyber bullying' but we all know that this will be part of what's classed as innapropriate. and we should mind our own business.

unless we really are going to down the road of teachers being parents.



They are both the same in the way that the powers involved are of control.

That is the reasoning of someone paranoid about state control ,when you have children gary and they go to school you will see things differently ...i hope .

Bullying in schools can and does ruin childrens lives to the extent of suicide .Many posters on this forum have shared their own experiences of bullying at school and ,i have no doubt ,wish that during their time at school the authorities were so "controling" of the problem instead of just pretending there wasn't a problem

[Gary L]

if it's just about bullying, then get the police in. they'll only be 5 minutes away.