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-   -   NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33676244)

Maggy 28-03-2011 08:38
NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12868879
Quote:
Plans to allow teachers in England to search pupils for mobile phones and examine the phones' content have been called "reckless" by a teaching union.
The measures in the new Education Bill are designed to combat cyber-bullying.
But the NASUWT says it will create conflict between teachers and pupils and their parents.
Quote:
The Education Bill for England will give the teachers a legal right to search pupils and take their phones - and also look at and delete any messages and pictures they deem necessary.
I'm inclined to agree..but then I was highly dubious about the idea of searching pupils for drugs and knives.

Gary L 28-03-2011 08:58
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
LOL they can't go through their phones pictures and messages and start deleting stuff.
I don't care if they're kids. you just don't give teachers this kind of power.

Damien 28-03-2011 09:07
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
You certainly can't let teaches search their pupils' phones at a whim. I think if such bullying is taking place then it needs to be referred to a headmaster who can decide a phone needs to be looked at but is responsible for the privacy of the pupil and has to have a reason why.

martyh 28-03-2011 09:32
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
totally wrong ,if the police wanted to look in someones phone wouldn't they need a search warrant ?

danielf 28-03-2011 10:50
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
I thought the coalition intended to improve on Labour's record on civil liberties rather than continue to trample all over them?

Jon T 28-03-2011 10:59
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
I can't see how this can be done legally, anything on a personal mobile phone, text, email's are classed as the owner's data, therefore under the data protection act you would either need the data owners consent or a legal instrument to allow them to be viewed.

I think the data commissioner/ ICO may take a dim view of this.

martyh 28-03-2011 11:44
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
i think the schools have the right to ban/confiscate mobiles if they are that concerened about cyber bullying in school time but definately not the right to view any content

Caff 28-03-2011 11:52
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Let's remember why 'they' are in the building?
Bless thir cotton socks but...

martyh 28-03-2011 11:54
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caff (Post 35200723)
Let's remember why 'they' are in the building?
Bless thir cotton socks but...
:confused:

Jon T 28-03-2011 12:01
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35200716)
i think the schools have the right to ban/confiscate mobiles if they are that concerened about cyber bullying in school time but definately not the right to view any content
A ban is fine, as is temporary consfication, permanent would be theft. As you say, viewing someone's personal data without their consent is a violation od data protection law, not even a disclaimer of "all mobiles brought on to the premises may be subject to inspection" would enable it to be done. Only way around it I can see is that all pupils wuold be required to sign something to allow any inspection to happen.

Teacher's would have to be carefull with this on a personal level, as personal prosecutions are perfectly possible, even if your doing something as part of your job.

haydnwalker 28-03-2011 12:02
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
All the more reason for kids to start pass coding their phones etc :) How exactly do the government plan to tackle that?

Teachers aren't the police, and they have and should not have the legal right to search/delete messages/pictures on a whim. If its supposed to combat cyber-bullying then there should be an entire process that needs to be followed before the search takes place.

Caff 28-03-2011 12:02
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35200726)
:confused:
Why would the pupils feel the need to have a mobile on hand and switched on during lessons?
They are distracting to the pupil, and those that are trying to teach them, if they insist on using the in class.
Gawd knows we might all have liked a bit of distraction during lessons but that ain't the point of being in school.
If the school decides that staff have found pupils' use of mobiles detrimental to the lesson and then it's good to damand that they are all switched off.
The 'searching' for them is plain wrong.
Let's remember that footage of staff has been recorded by pupils for good or bad - staff are aready showing dust and small stones as fast as they can go.
The matter should be taken up by senior management.

Chris 28-03-2011 12:11
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon T (Post 35200688)
I can't see how this can be done legally, anything on a personal mobile phone, text, email's are classed as the owner's data, therefore under the data protection act you would either need the data owners consent or a legal instrument to allow them to be viewed.

I think the data commissioner/ ICO may take a dim view of this.
Teachers act in loco parentis at school ... In other words they are responsible to care for children as a reasonable parent would. In reality, they almost certainly already have the right to do this with mobiles if the circumstances justify it, just as they never lost the right to use reasonable force against children where justified.

The reason the use of force has been enshrined in statute, and I suspect the reason this measure is now proposed to be, is to take a stand against those parents who have a chip on their shoulders about their own school days and are prepared to resort to Law to deal with the school rather than supporting the school's attempts to deal with their children.

The DPA was never intended to prevent child bullies from being caught and disciplined and if that is inadvertently now the case then frankly that is insane. Nobody would suggest the DPA should be used to stop a parent dealing with unacceptable use of a mobile phone so there should be no justification for it being used against a school which is acting with the same duty of care s a parent.

If new statute law is required in order to prevent schools being prosecuted under the DPA whilst dealing with cyber bullying and associated issues, then I'm all for it.

Gary L 28-03-2011 12:31
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
If anyone agrees that 'teachers' should have the power to go through a persons phone, and delete what they want to. then that says a lot about that person.

if I was a pupil I'd pin protect the phone. let them beat me till I give in.
I'd put pictures of my sister in it too.

martyh 28-03-2011 12:38
Re: NASUWT teaching union attacks school phone powers
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35200742)
Teachers act in loco parentis at school ... In other words they are responsible to care for children as a reasonable parent would. In reality, they almost certainly already have the right to do this with mobiles if the circumstances justify it, just as they never lost the right to use reasonable force against children where justified.

The reason the use of force has been enshrined in statute, and I suspect the reason this measure is now proposed to be, is to take a stand against those parents who have a chip on their shoulders about their own school days and are prepared to resort to Law to deal with the school rather than supporting the school's attempts to deal with their children.

The DPA was never intended to prevent child bullies from being caught and disciplined and if that is inadvertently now the case then frankly that is insane. Nobody would suggest the DPA should be used to stop a parent dealing with unacceptable use of a mobile phone so there should be no justification for it being used against a school which is acting with the same duty of care s a parent.

If new statute law is required in order to prevent schools being prosecuted under the DPA whilst dealing with cyber bullying and associated issues, then I'm all for it.

That's interesting Chris ,i thought that the child act 1989 removed the 'in loco parentis' bit but on further checking it doesn't it actually re-inforces it ,so as such yes i agree that teachers ,or at least the head of school already has the right to examine content of a childs phone given just cause

---------- Post added at 13:38 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35200771)
If anyone agrees that 'teachers' should have the power to go through a persons phone, and delete what they want to. then that says a lot about that person.

if I was a pupil I'd pin protect the phone. let them beat me till I give in.
I'd put pictures of my sister in it too.
As has been said above by Chris whilst at school the teachers are the parents and have the same rights in most matters ,this new bill will remove any confusion and re-inforce the authority of teachers .


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