superhub ties you into new 12 month contract - Page 4

Peter_ · 16-02-2011, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave9946

So as far as I'm concerned we have no new contract or we have a contract that legally has no valadity if such contracts were challenged. You may work for VM but if you check with the legal department I'm pretty sure in such cases the right of law is on the comsumers side with these matters.

I think Ben has already answered this as I left it to him as that his more his area.

Calls are not recorded except for training and quality purposes which is normally 2 calls per month per agent.

KenK · 16-02-2011, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

<snip> ...until the investigation was completed. If it was found that the agent hadn't done all they were legally required to do...<snip>

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masque

Calls are not recorded except for training and quality purposes which is normally 2 calls per month per agent.

Just curious. How do VM manage to investigate what an agent did or didn't do or say, if they don't keep a record? Or even what a customer did or didn't say? As it might be a contract issue that ends up in court, they surely need evidence that meets a legal standard of proof?

BenMcr · 17-02-2011, 10:39

Because there are certain notes that have to be left on the system by agents to confirm they've advise of a new term etc.

Any disputes are usually resolved on a case by case basis.

AndyCambs · 17-02-2011, 10:59

I upgraded to Broadband XL (30).
The email inviting me to upgrade clearly says:

Quote:

SERVICES AVAILABLE IN VIRGIN MEDIA CABLED STREETS ONLY. Subject to network capacity. 12 month minimum term contract. If you cancel during the minimum contract term you will incur an early disconnection fee. Speed upgrades open to customers on standard pricing. Customers on non-standard pricing (such as loyalty discounts) must move to standard pricing to be eligible for upgrade.

The email confirmation I received said:

Quote:

By taking another service your new 12 months contract covers all the services that make up your bundle offer at the new monthly charge we've agreed. Your new charges will start from your next bill. And just so you know, all the other terms and conditions of your original contract stay exactly the same.

If you decide to change your mind within the first 7 days, simply fill in and return the 'Right to Cancel' form tucked away with your letter coming in the post and you can return to the way things were before. Your new additional service is also covered by our 28 day money back guarantee, so it you're not entirely satisfied with your new service, just give us a call. Not that we think you'll want to, of course!

The letter I received said:

Quote:

If you decide to change your mind within the first 7 days, simply fill in and return the 'Right to cancel' letter tucked away with this letter. If you've added this as a new service, that service is also covered by our 287 day Money Back Guarantee**...

qasdfdsaq · 17-02-2011, 17:48

287 day money back guarantee?

zekeisaszekedoes · 17-02-2011, 17:55

Yes that is rather an odd number isn't it?

KenK · 17-02-2011, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Because there are certain notes that have to be left on the system by agents to confirm they've advise of a new term etc.

Any disputes are usually resolved on a case by case basis.

I'm not sure that notes left on a system by an agent amount to proof that he/she did what the notes say he/she did. But I won't worry about that unless or until I have to.

AndyCalling · 18-02-2011, 01:05

Remember, you only get put in a contract if you want to accept the offer. I upgraded from 20 to 50 before this offer came in, with free installation and a Superhub as was the offer of the day, but I had to pay activation. No contract though.

If you want to take the shilling get a contract. If not you can opt to pay the installation and activation. Not as good a deal as I got, but there you go. You could also wait until there is a better offer on, one that suits you, as I did.

That's the thing with offers, here today, new one tomorrow.

BenMcr · 18-02-2011, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyCalling

I upgraded from 20 to 50 before this offer came in, with free installation and a Superhub as was the offer of the day, but I had to pay activation. No contract though.

Can't see how you managed that. The act of placing the 50Mbit codes on the system recontract automatically.

Peter_ · 18-02-2011, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Can't see how you managed that. The act of placing the 50Mbit codes on the system recontract automatically.

Would he not be in contract simply for accepting and paying for the new tier of service?

BenMcr · 18-02-2011, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masque

Would he not be in contract simply for accepting and paying for the new tier of service?

That's what I mean. 50Mbit is a new 12 month term for everyone that goes on it. There is no way to stop this happening.

Same applies for 100Mbit

However the lower tier upgrades e.g 10 > 20 aren't usually new contracts

Peter_ · 18-02-2011, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr

That's what I mean. 50Mbit is a new 12 month term for everyone that goes on it. There is no way to stop this happening.

Same applies for 100Mbit

However the lower tier upgrades e.g 10 > 20 aren't usually new contracts

We would see this as a new work order with the upgrade details listed as well, thanks for the clarification Ben.

Dave9946 · 21-02-2011, 23:23

Ah, forgot about this thread lol. But something I'm wandering about with reguards to records that are and are not kept.

So if a person phones virgin up asks agout an upgrade and an upgrade is done and they insinst at no point where they told that in having the upgrade done that it would be reguarded as a new contract (and I'm not talking in my case but in general). And if in fact they even asked about it and was told that it is not a new contract and the person on the phone confirms this. Then is this also not a legally binding agreement between to parties?.

Also in then a few months down the road there is issues and a custmer wants to change there package again on the understanding they can because they are not in contract, (and received nothing soon after an upgrade to suggest they are) to be told you cant becasue you are there starts a dispute right.

As said calls are not recorded even when they probably should for legal purposes if it's with reguards to a contractual matter in case of future dispute and evidence to support both sides is needed.

Reguardless of what virgins policy is and all that, under a court of law if all virgin media have to go on is information in a screen, have have no record of any call where any agreement was made by call. If they have deleted that call then they have deleted record of contractual agreement that they probably need to keep. So legally I'd be very surprised if only a record on a screen is binding when virgin delete all the customers side of any call which may be the only proof of what a customer has agreed to.

With nothing but a line or 2 on a computer screen to go on to say that each such dispute would be on a case by case basis and be investigated sounds like cloak and daggers as there is no way a call centre staff member will recall word for word what was said to and from customers many weeks or months ago, the same for installers. So how would any investigation be made, can we even have an example of how they work?.

If the only record being the call is not recorded, stored\deleted then there is no record to any customer agreeing to any new contract as virgin are admitting that they have deleted all records except what a call centre staff member who may be so busy to make mistakes has put on a system.

Sorry for that hope it makes sence to some having the same thought as me lol.

qasdfdsaq · 21-02-2011, 23:30

A verbal contract is still a contract. Only problem is it would be difficult to prove in court one way or another. As in any case, all circumstances and factors will be considered.

Peter_ · 22-02-2011, 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave9946

Ah, forgot about this thread lol. But something I'm wandering about with reguards to records that are and are not kept.

So if a person phones virgin up asks agout an upgrade and an upgrade is done and they insinst at no point where they told that in having the upgrade done that it would be reguarded as a new contract (and I'm not talking in my case but in general). And if in fact they even asked about it and was told that it is not a new contract and the person on the phone confirms this. Then is this also not a legally binding agreement between to parties?.

Also in then a few months down the road there is issues and a custmer wants to change there package again on the understanding they can because they are not in contract, (and received nothing soon after an upgrade to suggest they are) to be told you cant becasue you are there starts a dispute right.

As said calls are not recorded even when they probably should for legal purposes if it's with reguards to a contractual matter in case of future dispute and evidence to support both sides is needed.

Reguardless of what virgins policy is and all that, under a court of law if all virgin media have to go on is information in a screen, have have no record of any call where any agreement was made by call. If they have deleted that call then they have deleted record of contractual agreement that they probably need to keep. So legally I'd be very surprised if only a record on a screen is binding when virgin delete all the customers side of any call which may be the only proof of what a customer has agreed to.

With nothing but a line or 2 on a computer screen to go on to say that each such dispute would be on a case by case basis and be investigated sounds like cloak and daggers as there is no way a call centre staff member will recall word for word what was said to and from customers many weeks or months ago, the same for installers. So how would any investigation be made, can we even have an example of how they work?.

If the only record being the call is not recorded, stored\deleted then there is no record to any customer agreeing to any new contract as virgin are admitting that they have deleted all records except what a call centre staff member who may be so busy to make mistakes has put on a system.

Sorry for that hope it makes sence to some having the same thought as me lol.

If you rang up and asked for 30Mb and you agreed and they sent out a Superhub and you connected it had it activated used the service and paid for it thedn you would have agreed to the contract.

If you rang up for the movie channels and you got them watched them and paid for them then you have agreed to the contract.

The would be a work order and notes to support this plus 30Mb will only work once you call in and have the service activated by us so you would be aware of the upgrade.