Students Rioting in London.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

And bring our streets to the point where they reflect those seen in Burhma or Tibet, is the way to go?

Only possible if our society, way of life and Government are the same as those in "Burhma or Tibet".

As none of them are, you can't compare them although I'm sure you'll persist in trying to do so.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Derek

Probably exactly the same level of justification required to issue officers with tasers and firearms which aren't standard issue. (yet)

No, that is not what it means, If it was simply a signing off, that would be the legal oversight. But the democratic oversight is a different kettle of fish.

Wheelchairs have brakes... If someone in one doesn't want to move you have to remove them from the chair.

I know this from experience. I also know people in their 80s can wield a walking stick like a wrinkly ninja.

Is that police SOP? I gather from you reply that you have also thrown disabled people from wheelchairs.

At the end of the day, if the guy in the wheelchair was thought to be in the way of harm, the Police, I guess have a duty of care for his safety and had to remove him post haste.

What if he was in a burning building? Would he / thugs still be whinging about it?

Flame away....

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Tuftus

Agreed, and on the plus side water cannons would keep the streets nice and clean.

Just look how it swept the rubbish in to the gutter in the Chilean video

I really cannot see what certain posters issue is with them, the prote.. thugs light fires or attempt to, chuck flares, firecrackers etc and the water cannons would be the ideal antedote to this.

They put out the fires, disperse crowds, dampen thier enthusiasm to participate in violent disorder (ha ha, you see what i did there?).

Win win imo.

And what about those, the vast majority, who are taking part in peaceful protest and demonstration? It seems an easy way for a government to quieten the masses, doesn't it.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

And what about those, the vast majority, who are taking part in peaceful protest and demonstration?

If they kick off and cause trouble, guess what?

They will get wet.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

How in God's name, could what that officer did to this man, make him safer. If he wanted to get him to move; he was in a blooming wheelchair. What would you have done, bearing in the wheelchair.

Flyboy ,i am going to try to cut through you're rabid hatred of the police with some common sense .To answer your first question ,

What does democratic oversight mean?

quite self evident but here you go ,it means that approval has to be given by ministers thats the democratic bit ,once the approval is given to the head of a particular force then he/she will have the authority to approve it's use ,which will be monitored (that's the oversight bit) by said ministers

To answer the second question the person in the wheel chair was quite clearly being an idiot and refusing to move when told ,all he would have to do is stick his fingers through the wheels to stop the police from wheeling him away (again quite obvious) To prevent injury to said numpty in the wheel chair the police are quite correct in dragging him out of the chair imo ,and being a paraplegic does not give him any special leaway

You see it's quite simple realy

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

No, that is not what it means, If it was simply a signing off, that would be the legal oversight. But the democratic oversight is a different kettle of fish.

It's a classic politician back covering exercise IMO
At the end of the day if needed the Met could deploy water cannons as soon as they get their hands on them. They could deploy baton rounds and CS tomorrow if need be without Parliament being able to stop them without amending legislation.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Is that police SOP? I gather from you reply that you have also thrown disabled people from wheelchairs.

Funnily enough I don't think it's set in stone. It is however common sense which seems to be a concept you struggle with. I've removed people from places they don't want to be removed from.

It doesn't look pretty, it is necessary on occasion though.

[Cobbydaler]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

And what about those, the vast majority, who are taking part in peaceful protest and demonstration? It seems an easy way for a government to quieten the masses, doesn't it.

Are you suggesting that the Police are politicised?

The people who would be targeted would be the perpetrators of offences...

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Russ

I have no idea what I would do and more importantly neither have you.

He was in a wheelchair, the clue is in "wheelchair."

Until you have been in the shoes of Derek and co you have NO idea how you would react and which resources you would use if confronted by a rabid crowd like that.

In all the training I have had, I have never heard of anyone suggest that the most effective way of getting a disabled person to safety is tip them out the wheelchair and drag them across the road. Just think about it. You first of all have to tip them out, not that easy really. Then get them to let go of the chair. Then drag them, struggling, across a road. If we are to believe Derek about the brakes, what is wrong with,......ooh I don't know.....undoing the brakes, perhaps. Not that difficult to do, just a little lever.

You just want to be anti-police and pro-lefty purely for the sake of it. If there was a nutter mob outside your house trying to attack you and your family, and the only option the police had to move them on was a water cannon, I'd bet my life savings you'd drop the lefty-act in seconds and be encouraging them to turn on the tap.

I am not, believe it or not, anti-police. I do an awful lot locally to support our police and help promote their reputation, I am a member of the local neighbourhood watch and I think on the whole our police do a fantastic job. What I am against, however, is anyone with authority, abusing that power. Like tipping disabled people out of wheelchairs, especially when a far more logical, effective and safer method is available.

Originally Posted by Tuftus

If they kick off and cause trouble, guess what?

They will get wet.

first time in months for some

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Derek

Assuming he was being cooperative then pushing him would be easiest. If he was being obstructive, and looking at his website where he comes across as a professional protestor who seems to have been beaten with the magic non-bruising batons, I don't think he would happily wheel himself away when asked.

But he wouldn't need to, would he? I can't imagine that the two policemen who were there would have been incapable of moving his wheelchair for him, do you.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

In all the training I have had, I have never heard of anyone suggest that the most effective way of getting a disabled person to safety is tip them out the wheelchair and drag them across the road. Just think about it. You first of all have to tip them out, not that easy really. Then get them to let go of the chair. Then drag them, struggling, across a road. If we are to believe Derek about the brakes, what is wrong with,......ooh I don't know.....undoing the brakes, perhaps. Not that difficult to do, just a little lever.

In all the training you've had, you have no idea what you would do in the situation because

a) you are not a police officer
b) you have never been a police officer
c) you have never been in that situation
d) you have never needed to physically remove someone for their own safety whilst surrounded but a riot, especially when they didn't want to be.

and

e) you are not a police officer

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I am not, believe it or not, anti-police. I do an awful lot locally to support our police and help promote their reputation, I am a member of the local neighbourhood watch and I think on the whole our police do a fantastic job. What I am against, however, is anyone with authority, abusing that power. Like tipping disabled people out of wheelchairs, especially when a far more logical, effective and safer method is available.

I don't know how much of that I believe but you seem to be living in a world of "Dixon of Dock Green" style policing. Reality check pal - life isn't like that. The police have to use force when needed and looking at an edited video clip or a still photo does not give you any idea of how to do it better.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Russ

Only possible if our society, way of life and Government are the same as those in "Burhma or Tibet".

As none of them are, you can't compare them although I'm sure you'll persist in trying to do so.

And by bringing in more draconian laws to suppress legal protest doesn't worry you?

I remember only just a few short months ago, the noises being made about the gradual curtailment of the right to free protest, where is that noise now?

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

And bring our streets to the point where they reflect those seen in Burma or Tibet, is the way to go? Do you think that the disabled or children, for example, are just collateral damage, perhaps?

i knew you would ask a question.

I don't know ask the idiots that start the riots . if they did not start the riots then they would be no need for these measures.

Secondly the people organising these protests know that there are going to be idiots, hooligans, and general doe balls at there protests so why not do what you do best and ask them as well.

As for my feelings on the subject i have no intention of answering only to have a question from you are as reply. I have better things to do with my time than engaging in your debating technique of constantly asking questions whilst not giving answers in return. I will now await the little flashing indicator in the top right of my screen with your normal retort

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Tuftus

At the end of the day, if the guy in the wheelchair was thought to be in the way of harm, the Police, I guess have a duty of care for his safety and had to remove him post haste.

And how was doing what they did make him safer? Why didn't they simply wheel his chair away?