Students Rioting in London.

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Derek

So if things aren't going your way you should throw a tantrum and smash up a few things?

If you think students should be handed the moon on a stick to continue a ridiculous degree of no use to anyone then fine but I'm a realist and know if you are studying for a relevant degree likely to get you a good job then investing in your future isn't really that bad an idea.

Aside from that I hope the Guardian are happy with the policing of demos after G20.

Funny how the ill educated often have a problem with those who are.
Ridiculous degree of no use? I assume you say that because your view of uni education is no doubt based upon commonly held stereotypes and misconceptions, simply because (presumably) you never achieved the grades to gain entry and experience it for yourself.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Anyhow, you missed the point in that in this country, the tax burden is already near insurmountable and to add on £9K debt on top is too much.
This country needs to invest in education, and if we don't we'll continue to fall further behind.

erm, how do you know that Dezza hasn't been to Uni, and/or is "ill-educated"?

You seem to be as guilty of stereotyping as some others.......

btw, re the tax burden - where do you think the money for the Universities currently comes from - the money tree?

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Hugh

erm, how do you know that Dezza hasn't been to Uni, and/or is "ill-educated"?

You seem to be as guilty of stereotyping as some others.......

btw, re the tax burden - where do you think the money for the Universities currently comes from - the money tree?

What on earth are you on about?
If you opened your eyes for a minute, you'd soon realise the reason the goverment is struggling with the funding is because they've wasted so much money on other endeavours, their policies are a shambles. Clearly the money comes from the public purse, but don't see the relevance tbh.
As for Derek, I've read enough of his posts on here to gauge that he's capable of speaking for himself, so either add something to the discussion or mind your own business.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

I assume you say that because your view of uni education is no doubt based upon commonly held stereotypes and misconceptions, simply because (presumably) you never achieved the grades to gain entry and experience it for yourself.

Wrong. I went to uni, a very good one in fact and I financed my own way through it. If I had to pay to get the education I would have done so.

Originally Posted by Sparkle

Funny how the ill educated often have a problem with those who are.
Ridiculous degree of no use? I assume you say that because your view of uni education is no doubt based upon commonly held stereotypes and misconceptions, simply because (presumably) you never achieved the grades to gain entry and experience it for yourself.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Anyhow, you missed the point in that in this country, the tax burden is already near insurmountable and to add on £9K debt on top is too much.
This country needs to invest in education, and if we don't we'll continue to fall further behind.

Originally Posted by Derek

Wrong. I went to uni, a very good one in fact and I financed my own way through it. If I had to pay to get the education I would have done so.

I believe the kids of today would say "epic fail"....

I actually agree that we need to invest in education (Higher and other), but we also need to have a rational conversation about the funding, not just reiterate polemical rants.....

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I believe the kids of today would say "epic fail"....

Yep in between spaying graffiti round an office block in London of course.

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I believe the kids of today would say "epic fail"....

Or that someone's telling "epic" fibs, if you'd earned a degree worth its salt I seriously doubt you'd be serving in your current career field.
No offense meant, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Osem

Oh right so the party in power during the entire period when all this was being allowed to happen aren't responsible for it? That's a novel definition of political accountability.....

Responsible yes, but that doesn't mean they caused (all of) it. A large part of the current deficit was caused by an international financial crisis. The UK is not the only country that has to make drastic cuts. It seems rather naive to me to suggest there wouldn't have been a mess under a different government. Perhaps there would have been less of a mess, but if you look around Europe, there are plenty countries that need to make deep cuts regardless of the colour of the government.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

Clearly the money comes from the public purse, but don't see the relevance tbh.

It is that kind of arrogant attitude that does you, and others like you no favours.

I as a tax payer, who did go to University but was funded by industry, find it highly relevant.

As the student populace, that showed themselves in all their glory yesterday were, actually protesting for the British taxpaying public to continue to supplement them.

Whereas, when I see a student I see, usually, perfectly healthy young people who should be quite capable of at least, partially, supporting themselves whilst they study.

The problem is that the last government managed to cheapen Further Education by insisting everyone could and should get a degree.Ridiculous!

It shouldn't be about who can afford buy the education and a degree.It should be about this country making sure her brightest children get the education this country requires whatever their social and economic status.It can only benefit us as a society.

If that means far fewer go to university to get a really worthwhile degree because there isn't enough in the public kitty so be it.If there are fewer universities so be it..A degree should MEAN something not just be a piece of paper to wave at a potential employer.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Pierre

There are students doing courses that only have 7-10hrs a week of lectures, which leaves plenty of time to get a job.

Point of order Sir: A degree involves more than sitting in a lecture theatre and being spoon fed information. You actually have to read books and do course work and prepare for lectures. That's not to say there are no easy degrees, but 7 hours of lectures does not mean you only spend 7 hours a week on a degree. Far from it...

Originally Posted by Sparkle

Or that someone's telling "epic" fibs, if you'd earned a degree worth its salt I seriously doubt you'd be serving in your current career field.
No offense meant, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Just to help you keep your spotless track record of mistaken assumptions - I am currently employed as an IT Director at a University.....

(having previously been Head of Technology Services at a major Finance company, Programme Manager at Barclays Capital, Programme Manager at O2, etc etc.....)

Update - just re-read your post, and it could be interpeted that you are calling Derek a liar - was that your intention?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Update - just re-read your post, and it could be interpeted that you are calling Derek a liar - was that your intention?

That's how I read it. Still, rather a cheap swipe imo.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Sparkle

Funny how the ill educated often have a problem with those who are.
Ridiculous degree of no use? I assume you say that because your view of uni education is no doubt based upon commonly held stereotypes and misconceptions, simply because (presumably) you never achieved the grades to gain entry and experience it for yourself.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
.

Amazing how someone so "educated" can so easily contradict themselves in such a short space of time.

Here you have a go at Derek and cite

Ridiculous degree of no use?

Obviously making the point that University Degrees are a worthy thing to aim for.

and go on to spout that he probably never went to Uni, spouting drivel about someone you nothing about

Then when it's pointed out to you that Derek did go to Uni, you post

Or that someone's telling "epic" fibs, if you'd earned a degree worth its salt I seriously doubt you'd be serving in your current career field.
No offense meant, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

So you by your own admission agree that that there are "worthless Degrees" or "Degrees of no use"

Please advise what, in your, vast experience what degrees are worth their salt and what degrees aren't. I'm really interested to know.

---------- Post added at 11:37 ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 ----------

Originally Posted by danielf

Point of order Sir: A degree involves more than sitting in a lecture theatre and being spoon fed information. You actually have to read books and do course work and prepare for lectures. That's not to say there are no easy degrees, but 7 hours of lectures does not mean you only spend 7 hours a week on a degree. Far from it...

I'm quite aware of that.

That still leaves 33hrs from a normal working week.

+ extra study hours that I would expect a dedicated person to undertake.

Which in my opinion leaves plenty of time to do course work and seek gainful employment.

[Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It is that kind of arrogant attitude that does you, and others like you no favours.

I as a tax payer, who did go to University but was funded by industry, find it highly relevant.

As the student populace, that showed themselves in all their glory yesterday were, actually protesting for the British taxpaying public to continue to supplement them.

Whereas, when I see a student I see, usually, perfectly healthy young people who should be quite capable of at least, partially, supporting themselves whilst they study.

On the contrary, its that sort of twisting of words that does yourself and this forum no favours. I was referring to the concept of free education in this country. The fact that the money come from the taxpayer (who incidentally benefits from education) is the way it ought to be, in my opinion.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and take this a step further.
Those students are doing what you lot probably ought to be doing yourselves (without the destruction) of course. They are standing up for what they believe it.
You're paying 80%+ tax on fuel, and what have you done about it?
You know it isn't fair, but what have you done? About the same as me, nothing.
We get taxed on our wages, the money we have left then gets taxed again at every avenue. The government, as with any government, will grow to fill the space allocated. Because we are quite happy to simply just bend over and ask for seconds, the government has become a swollen behemoth that knows no bounds.
I see this latest increase in fees as just another tax, just like parking fees at the hospital, these "fees" are paying for things that our taxes ought to. Since the taxes are so high they think they can sneak in back door taxes in the form of various fees, and then all manner of obtuse arguments to justify them.

I don't agree with anarchy, I do agree with you that violence is wrong of course.
But, the recent events have caused the politicians to take notice (for once) and has us discussing it.