Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault

[lucy7]

Originally Posted by chrispuk2004

As a former pupil of Mr Harvey's, I cannot emphasise enough how unlike him this is. He taught me A-level physics 5 years ago, and he was the most thoughtful, kind and generous teacher out of them all. All I can say is the child must have really wound him up and been a cheeky ****.

I do hope that his 20 years of service and all the comments about his quite obvious genuine and kind personality will help in court tomorrow.

My thoughts are with you Peter Harvey.

Nice to hear from an ex pupil of his.

Why not set a poll up someone?

I am sure we did caning on another thread a short while ago.

I do love this attitude of "i will be the one that hits my kid no one else" yes great now you go do it and when they reach a certain age and mingle with some of the little darlings that exist they will learn that if you touch them they can have you done for it. This is the problem there is no real way for a parent to stop a child from doing something bad if that child feels they are cooler doing it then not.

We do have a problem with certain parents but also a problem in the influence those kids with the lousy parents are able to exert on larger numbers of otherwise well behaved kids. This has become a country of barrack room lawyers all knowing the little bit of the law that means they can do what the hell they want and thats the biggest problem.

Our legal system is a joke setup it seems to promote rather then deter bad behaviour hell i know some young adults with the attitude that bad behaviour is good because then they pay their on the spot fines and it helps the country i mean how screwed up do we need to get before someone does something.

We have made massive mistakes in the past that are really going to come back to haunt us and whatever you call those groups that have told us all things are better done their way the fact is we have a problem and right now no practical solution and it is going to get a lot lot worse before it gets better.

As far as i am concerned we better get used to more incidents like this because i think there are going to be many more and maybe then someone in power will wake up and start to seriously sort out this problem.

Originally Posted by chrispuk2004

As a former pupil of Mr Harvey's, I cannot emphasise enough how unlike him this is. He taught me A-level physics 5 years ago, and he was the most thoughtful, kind and generous teacher out of them all. All I can say is the child must have really wound him up and been a cheeky ****.

I do hope that his 20 years of service and all the comments about his quite obvious genuine and kind personality will help in court tomorrow.

My thoughts are with you Peter Harvey.

Nice to hear some good stories coming out about Mr Harvey, there's not alot coming out about the pupil.

---------- Post added at 04:07 ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Russ B

Were kids all perfectly well behaved when the cane was used? Was there no youth crime at all?

If the cane was in use we wouldn't be discussing this thread would we? Top and bottom of it is the do gooders and the PC brigade have killed this country when it comes to respect by children, even the coppers hands are tied when it comes to arresting children, the child can kick, spit and headbut the copper but they can't do a thing. We need to go back in time and teach them respect.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by freezin

So what is the answer? Bad parenting has been around for as long as there have been parents - a lot of kids have been beaten at home. It didn't mean they behaved badly in schools.

I feel sorry for badly treated children, but not all of them disrupt other children's education. I'd like to see the disruptive helped, for their own sake's and everyone else's, but a solution does need to be found. Maintaining the status quo is not an option when the education of too many non-disruptive children is suffering along with all the knock-on effects.

Imo the problem is the parents until we get them sorted we have no chance of turning the kids around

[CycoSymz]

Originally Posted by Nidge

Top and bottom of it is the do gooders and the PC brigade have killed this country when it comes to respect by children, even the coppers hands are tied when it comes to arresting children, the child can kick, spit and headbut the copper but they can't do a thing. We need to go back in time and teach them respect.

My thoughts exactly.

[scrotnig]

Never ceases to amaze me that anyone ever thought, or still thinks, it's acceptable for a grown adult to repeatedly clobber a small child with a big stick.

Thank the Lord that it's illegal now. An otrageous and barbaric practice.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Nidge

If the cane was in use we wouldn't be discussing this thread would we?

I think we would but we'd be blaming something else, because it's always someone else's fault. The do-gooders, the teachers, the parents, the government, foreigners, asylum seekers, Muslims etc.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Imo the problem is the parents until we get them sorted we have no chance of turning the kids around

I think the parents are the major part of the problem, but we've never been able to make parents good, so what can we do? The behaviour of an increasing number of children has been deteriorating for years, since the end of corporal punishment, and probably before that when the permisssive society first got a foothold in schools.

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Never ceases to amaze me that anyone ever thought, or still thinks, it's acceptable for a grown adult to repeatedly clobber a small child with a big stick.

Thank the Lord that it's illegal now. An otrageous and barbaric practice.

I'm 1000% against outrageous and barbaric practices everywhere, but I don't see corporal punishment as being that, provided it is done by a head teacher or head of year and their are restrictions on how it is administered. How would you maintain discipline in schools? The present system is simply not working, with outrageous, barbaric acts still being carried out unrestricted, and almost always, by children?

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by freezin

I'm 1000% against outrageous and barbaric practices everywhere, but I don't see corporal punishment as being that, provided it is done by a head teacher or head of year and their are restrictions on how it is administered. How would you maintain discipline in schools? The present system is simply not working, with outrageous, barbaric acts still being carried out unrestricted, and almost always, by children?

What you're saying there is I don't think it's acceptable for a grown adult to repeatedly clobber a small child with a big stick, except if I personally feel it's justified and I'm afraid I cannot run with that.

All the cane does is show children that violence is the best way to get people to do as they say.

Would you accept an employer hitting staff with a big stick if they didn't perform well enough?

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Never ceases to amaze me that anyone ever thought, or still thinks, it's acceptable for a grown adult to repeatedly clobber a small child with a big stick.

Thank the Lord that it's illegal now. An otrageous and barbaric practice.

So have you ever seen the cane administered in school?I'm guessing not.

1-6 strokes of the cane on the palm of the hand.

Not CLOBBERING.

Originally Posted by scrotnig

What you're saying there is I don't think it's acceptable for a grown adult to repeatedly clobber a small child with a big stick, except if I personally feel it's justified and I'm afraid I cannot run with that.

All the cane does is show children that violence is the best way to get people to do as they say.

Would you accept an employer hitting staff with a big stick if they didn't perform well enough?

Please don't put words into my mouth. I said exactly what I said, and it's all very well taking the moral high ground, but:

I'm 1000% against outrageous and barbaric practices everywhere, but I don't see corporal punishment as being that, provided it is done by a head teacher or head of year and there are restrictions on how it is administered. How would you maintain discipline in schools? The present system is simply not working, with outrageous, barbaric acts still being carried out unrestricted, and almost always, by children?

Do you think it is a coincidence that uncontrolled violence inside and outside schools became more common with the decline in corporal punishment?

If a disruptive or abusive adult employee refused to listen to reason, I'd expect him or her to be sacked, not hit. I'd hope a disruptive or abusive child would listen to reason too, but when he or she doesn't what should be done?

Originally Posted by freezin

Please don't put words into my mouth. I said exactly what I said, and it's all very well taking the moral high ground, but:

Do you think it is a coincidence that uncontrolled violence inside and outside schools became more common with the decline in corporal punishment?

If a disruptive or abusive adult employee refused to listen to reason, I'd expect him or her to be sacked, not hit. I'd hope a disruptive or abusive child would listen to reason too, but when he or she doesn't what should be done?

They get expelled which is far more damaging as it seriously affects their education in the longer term.

A few strokes of the cane on one hand or a succession of different schools because you cannot learn not to be disruptive or violent?

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

So have you ever seen the cane administered in school?I'm guessing not.

1-6 strokes of the cane on the palm of the hand.

Not CLOBBERING.

Though personally I think for the odd few a clobbering should be an option!

[Gavin78]

I agree bring back the cane, kid’s need it as current forms of punishment in schools aren't working.

My partner works in a school and they follow the rule of positive discipline system.

Whereby 2 comments can be given in a planner if this continues they are given a 3rd comment and removed from the room and put in a room usually with either pupils they do not know or for example if they are year 7-8-9 they are put in a room with 6th formers.

The idea of this is to make them feel small and not funny in a room with a more mature approach.

If this does not work then they are given a 4th comment and moved to isolation where they work all day in a cubicle inside a cabin and have different breaks and lunch times to all the other kids.

This can go on for up to a week depending on what the child has done.

To get an on call which is when they are removed it’s usually a deputy head or a behaviour support worker someone of authority.

However most kids never get (4th) comment (isolation) because it looks bad on the school figures and are usually given a dressing down from the deputy head or head teacher.

More than not it doesn’t work kids are abusive in her school I have seen it myself over the course of 3 years I have known my partner she has been attacked had her car set alight for punishing a pupil and the school didn’t do anything about it as it was outside of school premises. Had her car spray painted with grass written on it for going to the police about a pupil attacking her.

Had nails put in her tires, threatened outside of school hours e.g. holidays and after work by pupils.

Most deputy heads and behaviour support workers try to be the pupil’s friend it doesn’t work and they won’t suspend kids because they loose 10k of funding for every child out of school.

So this happens in most schools just we/the public don't get to see this.

[soicky]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

They get expelled which is far more damaging as it seriously affects their education in the longer term.

A few strokes of the cane on one hand or a succession of different schools because you cannot learn not to be disruptive or violent?

Would caning work for the worst though. I can see kids getting caned every day and this would make them rebel even more.

How many more kids will start bunking off if caning was introduced.