Mansfield teacher arrested over All Saints pupil assault - Page 5

Russ · 10-07-2009, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Sadly Russ to many people share a similar opinion, hence parents assulting teachers because little Johnny had a detention, the school is responsible for them from 8 till 3 or whenever time and whatever punishments deemed legally appropriate should suffice, instead of being on the schools side some parents are on the kids and think nothing of shouting the odds regardless of what the little blighter has done.

I've never suggested that kids shouldn't be punished. Detention, lines, all that (if it works) is fine by be. If it's after-school detention I'd rather be told about it first in case arrangements have been made but all the traditional punishments I'm in favour of, including the 'hairdrier' treatment. But if anyone is going to lay a finger on my child as punishment it should be me or her mother. Just as I would never do that sort of thing to someone else's child, no-one does it to mine.

I think there should be increased dialogue between the parents and schools so they know exactly what is going on. I'm not 'soflt-softly' liberal but physical punishment IMO is a parents' duty only.

**Hugh** · 10-07-2009, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

From what l have read about the teacher, he was a nice guy, BUT what we have here is, that the teachers no longer have control over the kids, that we had when we were young.

Teachers from years ago were allowed to punish kids, if they were bad, and this is when you you got the cane or the slipper. Once they are in school, they are under the guidance of the school, so therefore if the kids are bad, the aschool should be allowed within reason to punish them.

Teachers can snap, but it takes a lot of pressure to make it go bang. Its the do gooders that say no, you can't smack kids, absolutely cobblers.

And it's also absolute cobblers to compare the attempted murder of a 14 year old with "smacking"; what's your next escalation point if the child is cheeky again - firebomb their house?

TheDaddy · 10-07-2009, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

I've never suggested that kids shouldn't be punished. Detention, lines, all that (if it works) is fine by be. If it's after-school detention I'd rather be told about it first in case arrangements have been made but all the traditional punishments I'm in favour of, including the 'hairdrier' treatment. But if anyone is going to lay a finger on my child as punishment it should be me or her mother. Just as I would never do that sort of thing to someone else's child, no-one does it to mine.

I think there should be increased dialogue between the parents and schools so they know exactly what is going on. I'm not 'soflt-softly' liberal but physical punishment IMO is a parents' duty only.

I never said you did say they shouldn't be punished, I said your attitude was part of the problem, if the child needs disciplining that's the end of it imo, if you made arrangements tough, same as if little Johhny has a sore bum, they should have behaved.

I am sure they have tried the 'increased dialogue' approach, infact I can imagine teachers get very frustrated by some parents lack of concern about their childrens behaviour or welfare in general.

Russ · 10-07-2009, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I never said you did say they shouldn't be punished, I said your attitude was part of the problem, if the child needs disciplining that's the end of it imo, if you made arrangements tough, same as if little Johhny has a sore bum, they should have behaved.

If I've made arrangements for her to go to the dentist or doctor, they're taking priority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I am sure they have tried the 'increased dialogue' approach, infact I can imagine teachers get very frustrated by some parents lack of concern about their childrens behaviour or welfare in general.

There won't be any lack of concern from me.

soicky · 10-07-2009, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nidge

Simple solution here, bring back the cane and a gold old slap round the earhole. I've said it a thousand times and I'll keep saying it, the PC brigade have ruined this country with their "lets treat them with cotton gloves attitude". It's about time the cotten gloves were took off and give them a good crack round the side of the head if they step out of line.

Bring back the cane before all the schools fall into anarchy.

The cane might work on the silly kids but it wont work on the worst who don't care about their actions.

Will more kids start bunking off?

The cane can be abused by a few teachers who shouldn't be in the job and than there's the other few who are having a bad day and why not get rid of that stress by a good session of caning.

Society has changed and caning wont work as it might before.

TheDaddy · 10-07-2009, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

If I've made arrangements for her to go to the dentist or doctor, they're taking priority.

I am sure any child would be grateful any behaviour problems weren't nipped in the bud for the sake a routine check up...

Russ · 10-07-2009, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I am sure any child would be grateful any behaviour problems weren't nipped in the bud for the sake a routine check up...

If it was a general routine check-up then that's different. But if an extraction or a hospital appointment had been booked, they would get priority then.

TheDaddy · 10-07-2009, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

If it was a general routine check-up then that's different. But if an extraction or a hospital appointment had been booked, they would get priority then.

If it were hospital or extraction, would they have even been in school to get in trouble?

Russ · 10-07-2009, 20:21

I don't see why not - the twice I had extraction in my early teens the appointments were after school.

**Maggy** · 10-07-2009, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ B

Were kids all perfectly well behaved when the cane was used? Was there no youth crime at all?

Teachers got more respect and lessons were quieter.I can remember it soo well.Also if the same few were being caned and not apparently learning any lesson..the rest of us were even if it was not to back chat a teacher.We also learned how NOT to get caned...obey the rules.

However in my school only the head and deputy head administered the cane..and as I've said many times it was done in public..No one was in danger of being beaten on the sly.

Arthurgray50@blu · 10-07-2009, 20:48

EVERYONE, is getting hot under the collar over this matter of 'child punishment'.

Every parent has a responsibility for there kids, when there kids go out of the house, they worry themself sick over what will happen, They go to school, some kids cause havoc and some don't, kids cause havoc by stealing, causing aggro on the streets, go before a court, get ASBO's, what we should do, if parents won't let schools deal with the problem within the time of school hours, IF a teacher gets assualted on school grounds or even outside, then the parents get taken to court its that simple for the assualt. I get really fed up to the back teeth, when people say that kids should be treated with kid gloves, they should not be smacked, this why there are rowdy kids terrorising housing estates, shopping centres, OAP's scared to go out or vulnerable people tec. Getting a clout from the teacher, in my day was a good thing, as when l told my parents, they gave me another clout and said ' you must have deserved it, and that was that.

alferret · 10-07-2009, 21:04

Just as a matter of law, and I think I may be wrong but just for clarification.

Attempted murder, I was always under the impression that to murder or try to murder someone then that is a pre-meditated act where as assault in a heat of the moment scenario is more along the lines of ABH or GBH & if someone dies from a heat of the moment assault then its manslaughter. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

10-07-2009, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I don't think the cane is the answer, a lot of kids get beaten at home and it doesn't improve their behaviour. Problem is imo that it's ok to be a loser, cool infact and these losers are exactly the same morons stabbing people because they didn't show them any respect, it'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

So what is the answer? Bad parenting has been around for as long as there have been parents - a lot of kids have been beaten at home. It didn't mean they behaved badly in schools.

I feel sorry for badly treated children, but not all of them disrupt other children's education. I'd like to see the disruptive helped, for their own sake's and everyone else's, but a solution does need to be found. Maintaining the status quo is not an option when the education of too many non-disruptive children is suffering along with all the knock-on effects.

Maggy J is right though, corporal punishment is finished in schools, and probably every where else before too much longer.

Arthurgray50@blu · 10-07-2009, 21:48

Murder is a deliberate act, Manslaughter can be classed under many different acts, but in this case, it could be classed as manslaughter under a mental problem, which leads in many different ways.

I believe ' dimished responsibility' can be classed as well, l do feel for both parties, as we don't know exactly what happened, we should not be judge and jury in this matter, I am almost certain, the press will dig up some crap on both people over the next couple of days, My thoughts are with both parties, as we don't know why, but some poor kid is very ill.

chrispuk2004 · 10-07-2009, 21:59

As a former pupil of Mr Harvey's, I cannot emphasise enough how unlike him this is. He taught me A-level physics 5 years ago, and he was the most thoughtful, kind and generous teacher out of them all. All I can say is the child must have really wound him up and been a cheeky ****.

I do hope that his 20 years of service and all the comments about his quite obvious genuine and kind personality will help in court tomorrow.

My thoughts are with you Peter Harvey.