New STM could be coming your way - Page 5

*sloman* · 11-02-2009, 18:15

AbyssUnderground I'm with you on the unlimited status!!

How can it be unlimited when our speeds are limited for 5hr/7hr/10hrs this prevents us downloading the maximum data possible if we were not limited.

Anyone know how to put in a complaint to Ofcom, I know how on BBC watchdog!

I have posted this issue on VM's Newsgroup virginmedia.discussion.broadband under the title of 'New STM could be coming your way'

CREDIT to: broadbandking

Most people are agreeing with us, and saying the same thing. Have a look

AbyssUnderground · 11-02-2009, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by *sloman*

AbyssUnderground I'm with you on the unlimited status!!

Thank you! You're one of few people who seem to understand where I am going with my argument.

In my eyes, if Virgin can't supply the speed they advertise up to on a fairly regular basis, they shouldn't offering it.

To the person who said moving to docsis3 should have solved it, it has solved the local problems, but Virgin just don't have the backbone to cope with the demand, and again this is where STM comes into play to balance things out. I heard somewhere that they had a 40Gbps backbone? Not sure if thats the right figure but when you split that between a few million broadband customers, its not a lot in the end. 0.04Mbps if you split it between 1million customers all attempting to max out at once. Obviously that would never happen but it shows how little at 40Gbps goes. I refer you to my recent post on sensible overselling...

If anyone should want to send this into watchdog or Ofcom on a serious and professional basis I'll be with you all the way and you will have my full support.

I actually spoke to my Dad about changing our cable broadband to ADSL because I'd rather have a decent 7Mbps from Be* than a crappy 2.5Mbps-10Mbps from Virgin. We already have a BT phone line, so in the end it would cost less too.

Magilla · 11-02-2009, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by *sloman*

Anyone know how to put in a complaint to Ofcom, I know how on BBC watchdog!

Annoyingly you can't, they no longer accept consumer complaints in regard to broadband (at least, not online).

You can fill in a form on their website but you won't recieve a personal response it's merely to measure "trends" apparently.

They seem to have abdicated their regulatory powers to the third party dispute system outlined in their "Broadband Code of Practice", rather convenient eh.

broadbandking · 11-02-2009, 18:36

The way Virgin get away with this as they have the cable monopoly, as the way cable is designed is for very high speeds at the moment as the ADSL connections are lot more limited.
So Virgi see it as you are gonna get a low speed from a ADSL provider so if you want a higher speed you have to use Virgin and they can throttle it and people will continue to use them because 1. they dont know about STM 2. they rarely use the internet to hit the limits 3. the ADSL speed is sooooo crap they might aswell stick with VM.

Virgin Know all the above point which allows them to do this and get away with it.

There is no way in hell this is to help customers it is just to save Virgin Media money, I could deal with STM if they had set limits that was enough for todays demand i/e between 4-9pm for 20Mb users should have a limit of 8Gb, which isnt alot these days and the stm should only be between 4-9pm, I must admit I would rather no STM but if I had to the above example I could live with.

The main fact is Virgin wil keep doing this as long as the other companies pose no threat, which at the moment they don't.

unnamed1975 · 11-02-2009, 18:37

why doesnt every one lower there speed to 2mb for a few months and see what happens it might do nothing or again it mite with every one not needing higher speeds only to get capped

broadbandking · 11-02-2009, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground

Thank you! You're one of few people who seem to understand where I am going with my argument.

In my eyes, if Virgin can't supply the speed they advertise up to on a fairly regular basis, they shouldn't offering it.

To the person who said moving to docsis3 should have solved it, it has solved the local problems, but Virgin just don't have the backbone to cope with the demand, and again this is where STM comes into play to balance things out. I heard somewhere that they had a 40Gbps backbone? Not sure if thats the right figure but when you split that between a few million broadband customers, its not a lot in the end. 0.04Mbps if you split it between 1million customers all attempting to max out at once. Obviously that would never happen but it shows how little at 40Gbps goes. I refer you to my recent post on sensible overselling...

If anyone should want to send this into watchdog or Ofcom on a serious and professional basis I'll be with you all the way and you will have my full support.

I actually spoke to my Dad about changing our cable broadband to ADSL because I'd rather have a decent 7Mbps from Be* than a crappy 2.5Mbps-10Mbps from Virgin. We already have a BT phone line, so in the end it would cost less too.

You are correct they have a 40Gbps backbone

*sloman* · 11-02-2009, 18:38

Well i have just submitted my complaint to Watchdog. As AbyssUnderground said if any one wants to make a professional complaint to Ofcom, please put my name down too.

broadbandking: I agree 8Gb limit is more healthy

PS if watchdog does contact me, would there be any problems directing them to this site to read other comments?

Matth · 11-02-2009, 20:39

Comparing them side by side:

1. Penalty period increased from 5 hours (no termination) to 7 hours with termination at 23:00
- Effect: better if STM'd after 18:00 (in the 16:00-21:00 weekday period), worse if STM'd before

2. Daytime (10:00-15:00) period dropped (unless they just forgot to put that in) - BUT

2a. Weekend period extended to 11:00-21:00 with quota a little less than the previous 2 periods combined

Effect: Weekday before 16:00 - fill yer boots!
Weekend: If you made much use of the 10:00-15:00 slot or the free 15:00-16:00 slot, negative, but if you were mostly an afternoon - early evening user, positive.

3. Upstream - Weekday penalty time as above.
Weekend, time period increased to 10:00-20:00 so both time period and quota are doubled.

Weekends, a bonus if you didn't use the free time before 15:00, a negative if you did.

Upstream restrictions will mostly be an issue for uploading, P2P (and P2P assisted things like some video/radio players), and for video/Voip traffic.

nomadking · 11-02-2009, 21:10

Is the demand such a big problem that they have to take such a blanket approach? If STM only applied in circumstances when & where it was actually required, I think people would have less of a problem with it.

I'm on 'M' service(2Mb) at the moment, if I upgrade to 'L'(it looks like it would only cost me an extra Ã‚Â£2/month) and end up on 10Mb, even when affected by STM I can still download at min speed of 2.5Mb which is a slightly bigger impact than a 2Mb non STM affected service. So if 2Mb is a problem, why isn't a minimum of 2.5Mb also a problem, never mind if I upgraded to 'XL' with a minimum speed of 5Mb.

RubberyDuck · 11-02-2009, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by unnamed1975

why doesnt every one lower there speed to 2mb for a few months and see what happens it might do nothing or again it mite with every one not needing higher speeds only to get capped

The only way to get through to VM is with money. The only way to truly achieve this would be to cancel all the services you have with VM.

The problem with us in Britain is we don't stick together. We all like to talk the talk, but not walk the walk. Until the other 99.9% of the population is willing to do anything about it, it ain't going to change.

Seriously people, how quick do you think things would change, if everyone phoned VM tomorrow and cancelled the services they have, and I mean cancel not taking any offer that retensions throw at you.

Though this would clearly work, it is never going to happen, we are all like sheep. Besides who could do without their Broadband, TV Package or Phone line, not many I'm sure, me included.

nutellajunkie · 11-02-2009, 21:25

true unlimited internet.. dial-up!

Ignitionnet · 11-02-2009, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutellajunkie

true unlimited internet.. dial-up!

Or http://www.sky.com/portal/site/skyco...andoptions/max

Or http://www.bethere.co.uk or http://broadband.o2.co.uk/home/index.jsp

The 20Mbit connection is an unlimited up to 5Mbit/192kbit service which bursts to up to 20Mbit / 768kbit.

Stabhappy · 11-02-2009, 21:31

Better to be able to pull 20mb/s most of the time and 5mb/s a little of the time(not often) than 2.5-5mb 100% of the time!

Rexz · 11-02-2009, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

The 20Mbit connection is an unlimited up to 5Mbit/192kbit service which bursts to up to 20Mbit / 768kbit.

Lol, This actually explains it more. Maybe ofcom can use this against virgin media for false advertisments? Advertising bursting as the actual connection speed?

Turkey Machine · 11-02-2009, 21:59

I have had an interesting back and forth with technical support in the newsgroups that ended up in virginmedia.feedback after originally being in virginmedia.support.broadband.cable. I have the connection shared in my flat because we all need it for our course and access to course materials. I chose 10Mbit because 2Mbit was a bit slow for 5 people, and ordinarily, it shouldn't feel that slow.

Imagine my surprise when I asked how many times we've been STM'd in the past month and a half. 14 times last month (January 2009) and so far this month, 5 times! That works out around 1 in 2 days STM'd. I now know why the connection slows to a crawl most evenings.

The kicker is, when I compared the STM limits across the 3 tiers (2Mbit, 10Mbit and 20Mbit), 10Mbit was worst off. During peak times 10Mbit gets a lower-than-half limit than 20Mbit, and barely twice as much as 2Mbit.

I'd ask what the hell Virgin think they're playing at, if I thought it'd get a response. Sadly, I doubt it will.