Scores die in Israeli air strikes

[Osem]

The problem is that Israel's leaders are so obviously self-deluded that you have to wonder if they'd even listen to the US - unless it pulled the plug entirely which it clearly isn't going to do. Obama's in between a rock and a hard place now. Expectations for his intervention will be sky high amongst many in that area (if only out of desperation) and if/when they aren't realised the repercussions for peace will be even worse.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by ntluser

The US are doing nothing because they believe that the future of the Gaza Palestinians lies in their own hands.

If Hamas keep launching the rockets, before long there won't be many Palestinians left alive there anyway, so a Palestinian homeland won't be needed because there will be no native Palestinians to populate it.There will also be no Palestinians left alive to tell their side of the story.

I think the US will only say something once Hamas declare a "substantial" ceasefire and permanently cease firing rockets into Israel, but I think such an event is highly unlikely unless of course all the militants are killed, which is very sad and so unnecessary.

We could look at it in another way. Give them a homeland, one that's not blockaded, and where its people having not been living under recent conditions as imposed by the Israelis and see if they then fire rockets.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

We could look at it in another way. Give them a homeland, one that's not blockaded, and where its people having not been living under recent conditions as imposed by the Israelis and see if they then fire rockets.

Yes - it's ironic that a people so desperate for their own homeland would so readily seek to deprive others of theirs!

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

We could look at it in another way. Give them a homeland, one that's not blockaded, and where its people having not been living under recent conditions as imposed by the Israelis and see if they then fire rockets.

Given that Hamas' founding charter commits them to destroy Israel and reclaim land owned by Arabs prior to 1947, I would have thought it unlikely that there would be an end to insurgency, even if there were a temporary end to rocket fire. And remember, Hamas is not the only player here, their activities are expedient to Iran's ambitions in the world. Iran will keep pulling the strings for as long as it's convenient to them.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

We could look at it in another way. Give them a homeland, one that's not blockaded, and where its people having not been living under recent conditions as imposed by the Israelis and see if they then fire rockets.

The reason Gaza is blockaded is because Israel fears the importation of weapons.

Having said that, the fact that weapons are being imported into Gaza shows that the blockade is ineffective.

Sadly, it also shows that rather than bring in materials to build and develop a peaceful Palestinian state, Hamas does import weapons and Israel has every right to be fearful.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Given that Hamas' founding charter commits them to destroy Israel and reclaim land owned by Arabs prior to 1947, I would have thought it unlikely that there would be an end to insurgency, even if there were a temporary end to rocket fire. And remember, Hamas is not the only player here, their activities are expedient to Iran's ambitions in the world. Iran will keep pulling the strings for as long as it's convenient to them.

All of that may/may not be true but Israel's actions are only exacerbating the situation and turning more people against them. Those being pulverised in Gaza have few options, Israel has many and it's about time they acted with some humanity and broke the cycle of ever more aggressive and indiscriminate retaliation. Killing thousands of innocent people does nothing to aid their cause.

[ntluser]

Originally Posted by Osem

All of that may/may not be true but Israel's actions are only exacerbating the situation and turning more people against them. Those being pulverised in Gaza have few options, Israel has many and it's about time they acted with some humanity and broke the cycle of ever more aggressive and indiscriminate retaliation. Killing thousands of innocent people does nothing to aid their cause.

Having said that, there was a time prior to the invasion when Hamas could have prevented the cycle from starting by ceasing rocket fire but they chose not to.

As far as I know, Hamas has never said that it will cease firing rockets if the Israelis withdraw.

While the rockets are being fired the situation will continue and Israel will remain more convinced than ever that the only way to stop the rockets is to destroy Hamas.

Unfortunately, in the process, many non-Militant Palestinian civilians will be killed too.

If Hamas were given a free homeland, there is no guarantee that they would accept and respect an Israeli homeland.

The Israelis are unlikely to support a Palestinian claim for a homeland if Hamas is not willing to accept and respect the existence of Israel.

[Osem]

Hamas are far from innocent but nothing they've done to date justifies what the Israelis are doing now. If the Palestinians were given a homeland Hamas would be pretty stupid to risk losing it by carrying on attacking Israel but even if they did on the scale they have been to date, it still wouldn't justify the killing of so many innocent, men, women and children by a nation which more than most ought to know better!

[icestar2]

Its all to easy to pick one side and blame the other. The reality dismissing the past (yes I said that because its not going to help now) is that both sides are carrying out imhuman acts and both side's are to blame NOW.

How there could ever be peace I dont know. It seems like a war that will rage forever or until one side is removed from this world. Its a sickening thought but the way I see things this seems to be the only way they would be happy.

I really dont see how there can be an end to this. Ceasefire's as I've said before never seem to last and neither side seems to really want to talk but rather remove the other.

Its a pity and a shame that such things like this go on in our world today when we as a race should know far better. Thats just my 2 cents worth (if it was worth that).

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Osem

Hamas are far from innocent but nothing they've done to date justifies what the Israelis are doing now. If the Palestinians were given a homeland Hamas would be pretty stupid to risk losing it by carrying on attacking Israel but even if they did on the scale they have been to date, it still wouldn't justify the killing of so many innocent, men, women and children by a nation which more than most ought to know better!

If you ask many muslims outside the middle east what they think about Hamas most will say they are sympathetic and can see why they do it. There is a huge amount of support for Hamas because they fall under the umbrella of palestinians wanting a homeland. And by homeland I mean a viable deal which is fair to the palestinians and does not involve oppression or blockades. That is the cause of Hamas - their own homeland.

Give the Palestinaians that and then if Hamas launch attacks into Israel you will notice a drop in sympathy for them around the muslim world. Why? Because they would have got their land. There would no longer be a just cause.

As for their constitution says they don't recognise Israel, then that would be amended as part of the negotiation process.

[ntluser]

The future of both countries lies in a ceasefire, which at present neither side is prepared to accept or support. Sad but true.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Osem

There isn't a Jew anywhere who's safer as a result of what's going on - quite the reverse in fact!

And that is one of the worst aspects because 99% of Jews across the world find Israel’s actions reprehensible, you only have to look at the marches across the world and see how many Rabbi's were there to know this, of course Fox news and a certain Israeli politician know the reason for this, apparently they are plagued by 'self hate', seriously I just cannot understand the mind set of these people, everyone else is wrong.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

And that is one of the worst aspects because 99% of Jews across the world find Israel’s actions reprehensible, you only have to look at the marches across the world and see how many Rabbi's were there to know this, of course Fox news and a certain Israeli politician know the reason for this, apparently they are plagued by 'self hate', seriously I just cannot understand the mind set of these people, everyone else is wrong.

Yes, that's the mindset they're in and it's very dangerous one. It's what I alluded to in a previous post - these people are so self deluded now, they could wind up doing almost anything!!!

[ntluser]

I think it's more the case that neither side is prepared to back down as they would lose face or it would be perceived as a sign of weakness.

If Hamas keep launching rockets, Israel will keep up the air strikes and invasion.

The fresh worry for Palestinans is that when this is all over, Israel may well feel that Palestinians cannot be left to their own devices and decide that they need to to re-occupy Gaza. In that way they can keep an eye out for tunnels into Egypt and destroy them immediately. They can also deal with militants far more quickly.

If that happens life in Gaza will become that bit harder.

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

If you ask many muslims outside the middle east what they think about Hamas most will say they are sympathetic and can see why they do it. There is a huge amount of support for Hamas because they fall under the umbrella of palestinians wanting a homeland. And by homeland I mean a viable deal which is fair to the palestinians and does not involve oppression or blockades. That is the cause of Hamas - their own homeland.

Give the Palestinaians that and then if Hamas launch attacks into Israel you will notice a drop in sympathy for them around the muslim world. Why? Because they would have got their land. There would no longer be a just cause.

As for their constitution says they don't recognise Israel, then that would be amended as part of the negotiation process.

The rocket attacks increased after Hamas were elected, Israel put up a blockade in response (a fact missed out intentionally by people who want to remove the ambiguity of the situation, far easier for Israel to be the devil). They have no interest in a peace, do you think they will ever compromise?

It seems clear they want to destroy Israel, Just because Israel are being barbaric in response does not absolve Hamas of being the murdering terrorists they are.