Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[Privacy_Matters]

Originally Posted by cdibrandon

OK folks, I'm going to deny comments like this. Just a heads up...

I'm a bit frustrated with these baseless attacks that don't understand the situation. I may have forgiven one of the two & thus deactivated the post, but I think I've explained myself enough as to why. I hope you can help your supporters understand how to deal with situations politically.

New comment on your post #771 "To retract or not to retract a post..."
Author : anonymous ([Moderator Edit])
E-mail : <REMOVED>
URL : <REMOVED>
Whois : <REMOVED>
Comment:
Stop blubbing Brandon we can see through those crocodile tears. The Phorm idiots played you for a fool and you danced their tune. The reason why some of us aren't going to be your best friend and cry a river for you is because you nearly got into bed with those sneaky [Moderator Edit] with your keenness to scramble on board HMS PhromTitanic (and we have the cached posts now to analyse despite your attempts to scupper that really useful information -- to which I say "thank you").

Phorm is an evil piece of work Brendon, you should spend some time reading what ordinary people think about having their private communications spy upon and monetised for the benefit of a handful of greedy marketing and telcom execs - And 'YOU' could have been part of that [Moderator Edit] Brendon, count yourself lucky you only got shafted for travel and hotel expenses because we over here in the UK might have to live with the consequences of your ex-marketing buddies shafting handiwork for years to come.

Brandon - remove the badphorm URl immediately please from your posts here and on your site.

This comment is NOT reflective of badphorm, and is NOT by badphorm.

(Brandon - I am Admin on badphorm)

[Russ]

I've closed this thread for a moment so I get everyone's attention.

I'm getting pretty annoyed with CF being used as a bitch-site against other forums.

By all means keep the Phorm discussion going, this is a massive thread which shows there's a lot of interest in the matter.

But copying posts from elsewhere is not acceptable and stops now. If anyone drags an argument from elsewhere I'll be handing out the infractions like sweets.

[Raistlin]

Please do not post others email addresses/IP addresses here, I have removed those details from your post. Also, please be more careful what you post/repost in the future, some elements of that post appeared to have been designed to bypass the swear filter on the site they were originally posted at - this forum has a 'Family' audience and the Terms of use require Members to keep that in mind when posting.

On a slightly seperate note, it's usually considered extremely 'bad phorm' to drag problems experienced on one site/forum into another.
If you have an issue with the way you've been treated on another site, then the correct (and probably most efficient) way to resolve those problems would be to take them up directly with the individuals concerned, or with the site's owners.

Thanks

[Wildie]

you find it wont be any of us lot

[Privacy_Matters]

Hi Guys

I was hoping not to post this... but I must now.

It is commonplace now for members to post the badphorm URL when commenting to blogs and articles.

This is now posing an issue - namely that some comments are becoming abusive, and using the URL for badphorm can incorrectly reflect this as a view of badphorm.

This is not good practice. If you wish to mouth off at an individual, please refrain from using the badphorm URL.

However, this is not to ban any individual from using.

No good will come of badphorms good reputation being tarnished - in fact this will have the reverse effect and undo alot of the really good work you have all been doing in the past months.

This has been posted of badphorm and other Forums as required.

Thanks

Sammy

[phormwatch]

OK, seriously folks. Let's keep our eye on the ball. I think we should concentrate all our efforts within the next few days on publicising the protest event at the Barbican.

I have been doing the rounds on the net. Any help is appreciated.

[madslug]

Originally Posted by Privacy_Matters

ok guys - its getting close to the AGM, so now for a suggestion

One thing that nags at the back of my head is this:

The company which is getting into behavioural targeted (B.T.) advertising is BT Retail. This is part of the BT Retail Division which also includes BT Business.

The AGM is being conducted by a business called BT plc for its shareholders.

OK, just words, you may say. However, the differences in the words is like addressing 2 people from different sides of the world.

Unless I have missed something, the management of BT plc is not the same as the management of BT Retail. BT plc will, as the major shareholder, have appointed the board/management for BT Retail and be relying on reports from that management board to have any grasp of how the business is doing. Most of this will be in the format of financial reports. Something like 'advertising revenue' is probably so small as to be lost under Sundry Revenue.

The average shareholder will have even less chance of knowing anything about what BT Retail is proposing.

Because it has to be assumed that everyone attending the AGM, other than a small handful, have no idea about any of this, they should be treated the same as any other innocent member of the public who is hearing about BT Retail's proposed usage of DPI Systems for B.T. advertising (rather than the usual usage of DPI for service management) for the first time.

In other words, the protesters need to come across as a group of people who are looking for the help of the shareholders and main Board of BT plc to right an earlier wrong and to make them aware of and to prevent the further spread of corruption within their midst.

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by madslug

In other words, the protesters need to come across as a group of people who are looking for the help of the shareholders and main Board of BT plc to right an earlier wrong and to make them aware of and to prevent the further spread of corruption within their midst.

Completely agree, its easy to lose sight of the fact that many people in the UK (and worldwide still less) know nothing about Phorm... Its not their fault. The press, politicians, regulators, and British Telecom have done virtually nothing to exhibit and expose this scandal.

I guess many shareholders will not know what is going on, and need to be treated with firm gentility.

Directors on the other hand will be well aware by now.

[phormwatch]

Could someone who has a login please post the information about the Barbican Protest on the BT Webwise discussion thread on the BT Forums?

You can just copy and paste the below (from nodpi) verbatim:

-----------------

July 16th - Anti-Phorm Protest at the BT AGM, Barbican Centre, London
Events
July 16th - Protest at the BT AGM, Barbican Centre, London

On July 16th 2008 there will be a protest rally at The Barbican Centre
(The Barbican Theatre) in London. The purpose of the event is to
protest against plans by BT Group PLC, Virgin Media and Car Phone
Warehouse to deploy intrusive technology across their broadband
networks for the purpose of profiling the behaviour of their customers
which is then sold to Phorm Inc. (formerly 121Media) and used for
their Open Internet Exchange (OIX) service.

You can read updates regarding the event on the following web page:

https://nodpi.org/category/events/
How it works?

Phorm Inc have signed exclusive contracts with Virgin Media, BT Group
PLC and Car Phone Warehouse (TalkTalk) to install Layer 7 network
switches within the core broadband networks in the UK. Without
getting too technical the system (branded as WebWise) intercepts every
single web based communication you initiate in your browser unless
they are encrypted - which most are not.

It then inserts software cookies on to your computer for the purpose
of gathering behavioural statistics based on the web pages you view;
it also makes a copy of every web page you view as it is being sent to
your PC and builds a list of key words based on the contents of the
web page.

This type of behavioural profiling is very rich data and can be used
to determine many things about your life and who you are such as:

1. Topics you are interested in
2. Your Political Opinions
3. Your Health
4. Your Financial Status
5. Your Sexual Preferences
6. Where you live
7. When you are or are not at home
8. Your Investments
9. Who you communicate with
10. What you type on web forums or social network sites

This type of information is very useful for advertising companies as
it allows them to target you with commercial advertising when you
visit web pages. However this type of information is also protected
by many laws within the UK and EU because it is classed as personal
information which most people believe should be private. For example,
do you really want advertising companies to know what investments you
have or the contents of your emails?

You can read more about the issues surrounding this technology by
reading the other pages on this web site and following some of the
links in the right hand margin.
Event Details

Date : 16th July 2008

Time : 10:00am - 5:00pm

Place: Barbican Centre, Silk Street, London. EC2Y 8DS

Directions

Directions to the Barbican

https://nodpi.org/events/

We will be gathering outside the main entrance for the majority of the
day. The best route to the main entrance is from the barbican tube,
but go right to the end of Beech street and turn right as per the map.
Purpose

The purpose of the protest is twofold:

1. To raise public awareness on the issues surrounding behavioural
advertising and threats it places on privacy.
2. To present the City of London Police with a case file based on
covert trials carried out by BT and Phorm (then 121Media) in
2006/2007.

The Covert Trials

In 2006 and 2007 Bt and Phorm (then 121Media) carried out two covert
trials of this technology (called PageSense in 2006, ProxySense in
2007 and WebWise in the present) which means they did not seek the
consent of their customers. These trials constituted criminal and
civil offenses under various laws. You can read more information
about this on the following web page:

https://nodpi.org/2008/06/04/bt-cove...he-facts-about...

And for the legally minded, you can read my legal analysis of the
covert trials here (PDF):

https://nodpi.org/documents/phorm_paper.pdf

[Florence]

Done Also posting it on ISpreview to remind people there.

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by phormwatch

Could someone who has a login please post the information about the Barbican Protest on the BT Webwise discussion thread on the BT Forums?

You can just copy and paste the below (from nodpi) verbatim:

snipped

Done - 11.25pm
but I had to fix the link about the covert trials as it was abbreviated and broken.

[Dephormation]

As promised, I've written a script which generates DPA Section 11 ('No Marketing') Notices for BT/Virgin Media/TalkTalk.

A Data Protection Act Section 11 Notice instructs your ISP not to use your communication data for personal marketing.

Simply select your ISP, enter your account number, name, address, click submit... and bingo, a DPA section 11 notice to print and post. The text is derived from the ICO suggested wording for DPA section 11 notices.

http://www.dephormation.org.uk/dpa_notices/

All you need is an envelope and a stamp.

On a related note, don't forget you can also generate a letter to your MP using this script;

http://www.dephormation.org.uk/letters/

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by madslug

One thing that nags at the back of my head is this:

The company which is getting into behavioural targeted (B.T.) advertising is BT Retail. This is part of the BT Retail Division which also includes BT Business.

The AGM is being conducted by a business called BT plc for its shareholders.

OK, just words, you may say. However, the differences in the words is like addressing 2 people from different sides of the world.

Unless I have missed something, the management of BT plc is not the same as the management of BT Retail. BT plc will, as the major shareholder, have appointed the board/management for BT Retail and be relying on reports from that management board to have any grasp of how the business is doing. Most of this will be in the format of financial reports. Something like 'advertising revenue' is probably so small as to be lost under Sundry Revenue.

The average shareholder will have even less chance of knowing anything about what BT Retail is proposing.

Because it has to be assumed that everyone attending the AGM, other than a small handful, have no idea about any of this, they should be treated the same as any other innocent member of the public who is hearing about BT Retail's proposed usage of DPI Systems for B.T. advertising (rather than the usual usage of DPI for service management) for the first time.

In other words, the protesters need to come across as a group of people who are looking for the help of the shareholders and main Board of BT plc to right an earlier wrong and to make them aware of and to prevent the further spread of corruption within their midst.

Yes - it is important to remember that BT is very fragmented nowadays and the shareholders will generally not have a clue. BT plc is a very big company and it has a worldwide reach - the BT Retail ISP is not a very big cheese in comparison wih BT Global.

You can certainly TRY and get questions asked - even unsuccessful attempts can be newsworthy - the press will pick up on any controversy inside the meeting even if it seems to get nowhere, and will make the link with the protest outside.

It's a question of trying to think - what will make the press interested but not damage your reputation or allow BT to portray the anti-Phorm campaign as loony?

Let's face it - the BT directors aren't going to be interested except in not wanting bad publicity. So its the publicity that counts. Even a failed question followed by a minor disturbance from the floor will attract attention. If someone is bounced out, for disturbing the meeting it might be best if others kept quiet and then made their own attempt at a question a bit later - then they could be bounced out separately - twice as much interest. Inside the meeting I would imagine T shirts should be kept covered up until you are IN or perhaps on the way out again - otherwise you could find yourself corralled or hustled out immediately. think in terms of the Labour party conference where that old concentration camp veteran got hustled out by the bouncers for asking an awkward question. It is likely to happen but you can turn it to your advantage.

Try very hard to make sure that YOU are not unreasonable or violent or disreputable. Let the BT people come across as unreasonable.

Even a series of refusals for questions from the chair will sound unreasonable and embarrassing if timed carefully and spaced through the meeting.

Expect chairman to use tactics - he has control of the agenda and timing so expect to be controlled, gagged, and ambushed by procedural devices. Don't use all your assets at once.

Best of luck you guys. work commitments prevent me from getting to London on the day but I will be there in spirit.

---------- Post added at 23:38 ---------- Previous post was at 23:36 ----------

Originally Posted by Florence

Done Also posting it on ISpreview to remind people there.

Whoops Florence - bumped into you over on BT Beta - we were both posting at the same time. Never mind, twice the value for money now.

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by R Jones

Whoops Florence - bumped into you over on BT Beta - we were both posting at the same time. Never mind, twice the value for money now.

I thought it was an echo

[MovedGoalPosts]

Anyone else find it a bit odd that so many of the recent pages of this post are referring to a protest about BT, and yet this thread started about Virgin Media

And yes, I know that BT are the only ones who've actually implemented the technology, I know that if they do get away with it, others like Virgin Media could follow suit. I'm just getting the impression that this thread has somewhat derailed from it's original purpose. Indeed I suspect the vast majority of potential readers, who are not that in depth knowledgeable about IT (bear in mind this site has always been intended as a help site), will now steer a wide berth and miss the point completely as to why Phorm and Virgin Media would be bad news.