Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Originally Posted by mark777

I wouldn't mind betting that frequent anti-phorm posters using BT as an ISP do not get an invite into the BT trial. They are probably identified by BT.

Perhaps some lurkers might be prepared to do this?

You think that BT might not also be looking at who the lurkers are? I bet they don't get an invite either!

On your point about a checklist... good idea. There ARE BT customers who are NOT lurking or posting here and are NOT posting on the BT forum who are waiting to receive the "Sacrifice Yourself To Our Webspy Cause" special page and they have my phone number They are not family, not in my home town and I never call them from a land line at my house so no hope of BT black-listing them from the trial and one can only hope they are presented with an interception of their browsing to see the "Special Page"....

Hank

[flowrebmit]

Remember the Phorm supplied DPI equipment inside the ISP is designed to mis-route IP addresses. So even if a DNS lookup for www.webwise.net gives an IP address that is hosted in some far away land, it doesn't help us as customer because of the DPI equipment we are never going to be sure whether our data is being re-routed to a fake www.webwise.net server inside the ISP or out to one far, far away.

For some reason, a little corner of my brain is screaming, Phorm is using sleight-of-hand, you are being conned by your ISP.

[Dephormation]

It would be very handy if Firefox 2 users installed the prerelease version of Dephormation to capture a log of redirects during the sign up process.

Download from here;
http://www.dephormation.org.uk/prere...phormation.xpi
(nb right click, save as, drag into Firefox to install)

I feel like I'm briefing Christians being thrown to the lions. Here's a checklist. Watch out for the one with sharper teeth. Don't carry a ham sandwich in your pocket. Don't be the slowest runner etc.

PS; you need to be sure you only enable the log file output feature during sign up (don't run with the 'disable Phorm'/'randomise Phorm UID' features on, for obvious reasons ).

Originally Posted by Dephormation

I feel like I'm briefing Christians being thrown to the lions. Here's a checklist. Watch out for the one with sharper teeth. Don't carry a ham sandwich in your pocket. Don't be the slowest runner etc.

Yeah, u r right there!

I'm like a little lamb going to slaughter

Hank

[mark777]

Originally Posted by Hank

You think that BT might not also be looking at who the lurkers are? I bet they don't get an invite either!

On your point about a checklist... good idea. There ARE BT customers who are NOT lurking or posting here and are NOT posting on the BT forum who are waiting to receive the "Sacrifice Yourself To Our Webspy Cause" special page and they have my phone number They are not family, not in my home town and I never call them from a land line at my house so no hope of BT black-listing them from the trial and one can only hope they are presented with an interception of their browsing to see the "Special Page"....

Hank

It's anybody's guess whether BT will exclude anti-phormites or not. It's a sensible thing to do, but they don't always appear to do the sensible thing.

I believe BT have about 3 million users, so to sign up 10,000 is 1 in 300 of the customer base. If they do it on a single exchange and assuming the anti-phormites are randomly spread amongst the user base, the odds are the same.

In an ideal world, they would have to ask 300 people to get 1 to sign up, but that probably won't be the case. The chances are we won't be able to get anyone inside the trial unfortunately. I hope i'm wrong.

One obvious thing to do to increase the chances would be to get online early in the morning of the first day of the trial. Try requesting a new IP etc.

Anyone have any other thoughts?

[Florence]

Originally Posted by Portly_Giraffe

Looking at the IP addresses of the various domains, I would conclude that BT are using the long bank holiday weekend to rehost the Phorm service at Gyron Internet in London E14 on 89.145.112.31 and 89.145.112.32 with backup for the most service-critical function (OIX) at Fasthosts on 88.208.250.85.

Any comments?

It certainly suggests that substantial parts of any Phorm system implemented by BT would not be hosted directly by BT though of course this may be consistent with the published design saved in a message a few thousand back from here.

Websites on one Gyron Internet server at 89.145.112.31:
blog.phorm.com
blog.webwise.com

Websites on two Gyron Internet servers at 89.145.112.31 and 89.145.112.32:
www.121media.com
www.openinternetalliance.com
www.openinternetalliance.net
www.openinternetalliance.org
www.phorm.com
www.webwise.com
www.webwise.net
www.webwise.org
www.youcanoptout.com
www.youcanoptout.net
www.youcanoptout.org

Websites which now appear to be on two Gyron Internet servers at 89.145.112.31 and 89.145.112.32 and one Fasthost server at 88.208.250.85:
www.oix.com
www.oix.net
(www.oix.org is already taken by a non-Phorm company)
www.openinternetexchange.com
www.openinternetexchange.net
www.openinternetexchange.org

Remaining at Fasthosts in Gloucester UK:
webwise.bt.com - maybe to be abandoned?
www.tecreports.co.uk - unrelated to Phorm

Remaining at ThePlanet.com in Houston TX:
www.webwise.bt.com
youcanoptin.com
youcanoptin.net
youcanoptin.org

Please correct this if I've misinterpreted anything.

It's strange that the youcanoptin domains have been left in the US while the youcanoptout domains have been moved to what appears to be the production site. Maybe the ICO should give a view?

Maybe it is time to contact them again and point out they are asking for details which are not given as optional that will idnetify you.

Just noticed that the answer to the remaining unanswered question is now in...

On 24th April the Earl of Northesk asked Her Majesty's Government a question which was due for answer by 8th May and was answered on 22nd May:

"Which law enforcement agency, Department or other statutory body has responsibility for investigating and prosecuting possible criminal breaches of (a) the Data Protection Act 1998, (b) the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, and (c) the Computer Misuse Act 1990." [HO HL3267]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord West of Spithead) answers:

(a) Investigation of breaches of RIPA would be investigated by the police or other relevant law enforcement agency; any subsequent prosecution would be taken forward by the CPS or other relevant prosecuting agency.

(b) The Information Commissioner is an independent body created by statute with responsibilities for investigating complaints made to him under the Data Protection Act 1998. Proceedings for offences in England and Wales can be instituted by the commissioner or by or with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions. In Northern Ireland, offences would be instituted by the commissioner or by or with the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland. In Scotland, potential breaches investigated by the commissioner are prosecuted by the procurator fiscal.

(c) Under normal circumstances, the police would investigate any breaches of the Computer Misuse Act, and any subsequent prosecution would be handled by the Crown Prosecution Service. The CPS has a number of high tech crime prosecutors who are trained to prosecute offences contrary to the Computer Misuse Act.



I think a letter to my local Chief Constable might be necessary. I'm sure that Emma form BT said on TV they had intercepted the communication of a number of customers in 2006 and 2007... and that's should be illegal and therefore a crime has possibly taken place and someone should be investigating.

Can anyone remind us, where the evidence of the admissions can be found on the internet and the date that they took place? Might pop that titbit of info in the letter

Hank

---------- Post added at 12:11 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------

Hang on a minute, whom are the

other relevant law enforcement agency

he refers to? Still not nailing down the answer to the question really!

Hank

[Florence]

http://www.channel4.com/player/v2/pl...p?showId=11622 BT iplayer on the BT illegal act

Originally Posted by Hank

"Which law enforcement agency, Department or other statutory body has responsibility for investigating and prosecuting possible criminal breaches of (a) the Data Protection Act 1998, (b) the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, and (c) the Computer Misuse Act 1990." [HO HL3267]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord West of Spithead) answers:

(a) Investigation of breaches of RIPA would be...

(b) The Information Commissioner is an independent body created by statute with responsibilities for investigating complaints made to him under the Data Protection Act 1998...

(c) Under normal circumstances, the police would investigate any breaches of the Computer Misuse Act...

He's got his A's and B's mixed up too hasn't he. What hope is there.......

---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Florence

http://www.channel4.com/player/v2/pl...p?showId=11622 BT iplayer on the BT illegal act

Thanks

[warescouse]

I have read plenty of smoke, mirrors and spin from BT and Phorm how customers will welcome Webwise. I just came across this today and I have not seen it referenced on this board before,

http://www.computeractive.co.uk/comp...orm-acceptable


Its over a week old but clearly this survey did not concur with BT's spinning.

---------- Post added at 14:02 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------

Anybody explain this? Significant?
Click on 'Special Conditions'
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...HRM#PriceChart

[Gixer]

Originally Posted by warescouse

I have read plenty of smoke, mirrors and spin from BT and Phorm how customers will welcome Webwise. I just came across this today and I have not seen it referenced on this board before,

http://www.computeractive.co.uk/comp...orm-acceptable


Its over a week old but clearly this survey did not concur with BT's spinning.

---------- Post added at 14:02 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------

Anybody explain this? Significant?
Click on 'Special Conditions'
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...HRM#PriceChart

It is interesting to see that nearly three quarters of respondents in the survey had heard of Phorm/Webwise and equated it with spyware.

Even better is that more than half of the respondents would leave their ISP if they introduced Phorm - should give the bean counters something to think about.

Keeping the issue in the public eye and spreading the word seems to be doing the trick.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by warescouse

I have read plenty of smoke, mirrors and spin from BT and Phorm how customers will welcome Webwise. I just came across this today and I have not seen it referenced on this board before,

http://www.computeractive.co.uk/comp...orm-acceptable


Its over a week old but clearly this survey did not concur with BT's spinning.

---------- Post added at 14:02 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------

Anybody explain this? Significant?
Click on 'Special Conditions'
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...HRM#PriceChart

The first was posted when the vote on ISPreview was first completed pages back but it is good to see it made it into the computer side of things more places saying the majoity say no helps..

As for share insider dealings ot take over not sure hadn't heard of that one before..

Maybe google bidding to shut them down now I would buy google shares to help them do that

[r1ch]

Yay - I've finally got BT to release me from my contract! Unfortunately it wasn't specifically because of the Phorm T&C changes but this morning I received an email saying that they're discontinuing the BT OpenZone access that I got included with my account and 'replacing' it with BT FON instead. Aside from the fact that this requires you to share your home bandwith it also means that you can't roam on partner networks like 'The Cloud'. I complained to customer services, saying that this meant that I now couldn't use the wireless access from my usual haunts and (after a bit of wriggling) they finally agreed to give me a MAC.

Maybe some other trapped BT customers can get out the same way?

Does anyone have any good ADSL recommendations? If VM drop Phorm then I might even try them again.

[hilfiger]

BeThere internet

didnt see any complains about it, ill go for it once the contract expires

[dav]

Originally Posted by warescouse

Anybody explain this? Significant?
Click on 'Special Conditions'
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...HRM#PriceChart

Explain what?

Under 'Special Conditions' on the main page it says 'NONE'
If you click on 'Special Conditions' it looks as if it provides a run down of possible entries for this.