still racist

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Escapee

If you read my post and take note you will see I said


1) Members of the filipino community in Cardiff have integrated well
2) The Indians I have worked with have been very friendly
3) The 2 pakistanis I worked with were certainly not
4) The 2 pakistanis put money into the family pot
5) The Chinese do not complain

I did not say

a) All Asian do not integrate
b) I did not say they all put money in the family pot
c) I did not say all Asians are controlled by religion

What I said was Asians who are controlled by religions are the ones that don't integrate well, I expect moving to another country controlled by the same religion would be easier for them. I did not tar all Asains with the same brush because Asia is a large area with many different cultures, some are friendly by nature and willing to get on with everyone else whilst others do not appear so.

PS. You are right, Pakistanis are the ones I have most difficulty with. but then again I also have a dislike for middle east gentlemen (term used loosely) who hang around groping white women in bars.

Actually a pakistani in my town was complained about in one of the local large chain pubs, he had been warned on various occasions for his lewd action and groping women. He was banned from the establishment, and as a result drafted a letter of complaint threatening action against them for being racist. The pub manager went back on his ban and he is now allowed back in the premises, he used the race card as a threat when it had nothing to do with his race or skin colour but everything to do with the way he conducted himself.

I have read enough of your posts on this forum to come up with the opinion that you do not like PAkistanis, you dont like immigrants (non white ones who happen to be brown skinned and from Pakistan) and you dont like muslims.

The think is a lot of what you say contradicts itself. You also come up with some useless examples about pakistanis putting money in a Pot. Did you not watch Bread? You know putting money in a joint pot is not exclusively Pakistani.

As for your Indians who integrate so well, are you certain that they are not "ruled by religion"?

You might not be tarring all asians with the same brush, especially if you bring in the Chinese to your equation, but you certainly seem to tar all pakistani muslims (especially immigrants) with the same brush.

In my opinion there is a racist undertone to what you write, but you try to deflect this by saying you cant be racist because you have an immigrant asian (i think) girlfriend. Whether o not she exists I don't know, but I think we both know where you're coming from.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

you try to deflect this by saying you cant be racist because you have an immigrant asian (i think) girlfriend. Whether o not she exists I don't know, but I think we both know where you're coming from.

'I've got an immigrant girlfriend' certainly does seem to have replaced 'One of my best friends is black'. Not that I am implying anything other than, the posters that seem to have real issues with immigration all seem to be in intimate relationships with one, if they are so great why try and deprive the rest of us?

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by sssshhhh

[QUOTEPS. You are right, Pakistanis are the ones I have most difficulty with. but then again I also have a dislike for middle east gentlemen (term used loosely) who hang around groping white women in bars........................
Actually a pakistani in my town was complained about in one of the local large chain pubs, he had been warned on various occasions for his lewd action and groping women. He was banned from the establishment, and as a result drafted a letter of complaint threatening action against them for being racist. The pub manager went back on his ban and he is now allowed back in the premises, he used the race card as a threat when it had nothing to do with his race or skin colour but everything to do with the way he conducted himself.]

Whilst I can see, sort of, that you do not mean to imply anything untoward in your posts, can you not see that the language you use and the way in which you construct your sentences will lead people to think otherwise?[/QUOTE]


Am I supposed to like these middle eastern gentlemen who grope women?

There are white males who grope women but it is not as commonplace, to see these middle eastern appearance men groping women is not something I am happy with. If it were one white male or a group of white males they would generally be ejected from the premises straight after a complaint, but we have a fear in this country of treating people equal. I would go as far as to say a white man conducting himself in this manner would be more likely to be on the end of a physical attack.

I am not sure if it is common practice in some countries to help yourself and grope women like they are a piece of cattle in the marketplace, but very few people find it acceptable in our culture.

The Pakistani man was not banned because he was dark skinned, a different appearance to anyone else or because he followed a different religion. he was banned because he acted like a dirty pervert and was only banned after numerous complaints for touching women in a 'not very gentlemanly way' in more than one licensed premises. It is however a shame that the manager did not have the common sense to enforce the ban, but instead chooses to bow down to a threat by somone who says they will report him and have the local newspaper involved.

Fair treatment works both ways, it is not a one way street. To be treated fairly you have to treat others as you expect to be treated yourself. I fail to see how the guy could show his face in the place again after being banned for such conduct.

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

'I've got an immigrant girlfriend' certainly does seem to have replaced 'One of my best friends is black'. Not that I am implying anything other than, the posters that seem to have real issues with immigration all seem to be in intimate relationships with one, if they are so great why try and deprive the rest of us?

Because I chose my girlfriend because of her personality, looks and her kind nature. Filipinos are noted for their caring kind nature and they can get on with just about anyone. (yes even me)

Filipinos are not that different to the majority of us though, there are people from countries in Asia that they are not keen on. The same can be said of Africans and it certainly can of Carribeans.

Oh, if we want to play the my girlfriend is etc, they have been.

Welsh
English
filipino
Jamaican
Zimbabwean
South African
Cameroon
Nigerian
Gambia

I have also been on dates with women from many other different Carribean, African and one other Asian country.

I think many people make the mistake of someone speaking their mind as racist, or better still its an easy label to use when feeling uncomfortable with the truth.

Tbh time to bin this thread it is going to go the same way as all threads on all forums like this go. Lets make it real simple if your white you have nothing to say on racism as you are the only ones doing it and everyone else is a victim of your white racism. Whenever there are examples given of it being the other way round on forums one of two things happen 1 it is rubbished and the poster insulted or 2 they simply ignore it and continue with their "white is racist" bs. Am i a racist not yet but i am getting there tbh and it is this current climate that is pushing me and many many others to an extreme that we would rather not be anywhere near. While it is a cliche i had 3 non white best friends as i was growing up 1 chinese and 2 vietnamese and while due to us all moving around the UK over time we have lost contact i would still consider them to be friends if i met them again. It simply is not possible to maintain a rational debate on racism in the UK because the fact is there are victims on all sides not the nice simple view that pervades that only whites are racist and everyone else suffers.

[sssshhhh]

Originally Posted by Escapee

Whilst I can see, sort of, that you do not mean to imply anything untoward in your posts, can you not see that the language you use and the way in which you construct your sentences will lead people to think otherwise?

Am I supposed to like these middle eastern gentlemen who grope women?

There are white males who grope women but it is not as commonplace, to see these middle eastern appearance men groping women is not something I am happy with. If it were one white male or a group of white males they would generally be ejected from the premises straight after a complaint, but we have a fear in this country of treating people equal. I would go as far as to say a white man conducting himself in this manner would be more likely to be on the end of a physical attack.

I am not sure if it is common practice in some countries to help yourself and grope women like they are a piece of cattle in the marketplace, but very few people find it acceptable in our culture.

The Pakistani man was not banned because he was dark skinned, a different appearance to anyone else or because he followed a different religion. he was banned because he acted like a dirty pervert and was only banned after numerous complaints for touching women in a 'not very gentlemanly way' in more than one licensed premises. It is however a shame that the manager did not have the common sense to enforce the ban, but instead chooses to bow down to a threat by somone who says they will report him and have the local newspaper involved.

Fair treatment works both ways, it is not a one way street. To be treated fairly you have to treat others as you expect to be treated yourself. I fail to see how the guy could show his face in the place again after being banned for such conduct.

You missed the point of my post. To say it's Pakistani people you have a problem with. And then tell the story you told? I wasn't even referring to your comments on the 'middle eastern gentleman' as you referred to it. Can you not see the way people may view your posts?

You keep on using personal experiences to back up your arguments. Whilst I don't deny that they happened as you say they did, many people find it difficult to accept as a valid stand point.

Are you supposed to like these middle eastern gentlemen who grope women?
Did you think about taking the words 'middle eastern' out of the sentence? As a female anyone who gropes women would come under the same umbrella for me. And I assume you think the same. But the language you sometimes can give people a different take on what your trying to say.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by jkat

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200706...s-2d5f290.html this has to stop.

An asian work mate of mine was driving us back from work one morning (worked nights) emptyish road at just after 6am and cop car pulled us up. He had to show licence then that was it, no apperent reason for it. Then as if they were showing they drove off and through a red light in front of us. I have never been pulled over like this before in my life but he told me it happens to him reasonably often.

[rogerdraig]

[quote=TheDaddy;34331206]They sure are deceiving, considering half the people claiming sickness benefit would be better of on the dole but what do peoples lives matter as long as the figures look nice, good point about the long term unemployed as well, who say's they are shunned, the dole office perhaps? The same dole office that has in a lot of cases left them to rot for years, without even bothering to check if they have cv's?

---------- Post added at 08:39 ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 ----------

i think you have been reading the sun to much there most on long term sickness are there because they are ill

yes there are always some who shouldn't be on it but to tar those who are ill in with them is churlish

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

i think you have been reading the sun to much there most on long term sickness are there because they are ill

yes there are always some who shouldn't be on it but to tar those who are ill in with them is churlish

Yet Gordon Brown himself say's there are over a million claiming sickness based benefit's that shouldn't be, that's 20% that they are prepared to admit to

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Yet Gordon Brown himself say's there are over a million claiming sickness based benefit's that shouldn't be, that's 20% that they are prepared to admit to

All spin, to claim long term incapacity benefit you have to pass tough medical assessments, you also have to have a work history to qualify as its a contribution based benefit.

People with no medical qualifications trying to claim they know if people are fit to work or not.

The reason behind this spin is to reduce the social welfare tax burden since job seekers allowance is less generous.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

All spin, to claim long term incapacity benefit you have to pass tough medical assessments, you also have to have a work history to qualify as its a contribution based benefit.

The reason behind this spin is to reduce the social welfare tax burden since job seekers allowance is less generous.

I don't doubt the reasons why old Gordon said this, what I don't doubt either are the figures, they show that in 2005 social security fraud cost Britain tens of millions and a lot of that fraud was carers allowance, disability benefit and incapacity benefit rip offs and what I also don't doubt is that once people start claiming, just how easy it is for the powers that be to 'forget' about them

Speaking as someone on incapacity benefit TheDaddy may i suggest that before you go grabbing your large tar all brush you actually find out what the hell you are on about. For the record i know better then most how many skiving git's are on incapacity as i see them both in and out of hospital and it annoy's me and the other genuine claimants more then it annoy's you.

As for the longtime unemployed not being shunned yeah right more proof you have no idea what the hell you are on about. Before i was moved to incapacity benefit i (oh and i have a very professional curriculum vitae) I applied for over 500 jobs with a variety of reasons why i didn't get the job i attended 5 courses in all to get the qualifications company's said they wanted only to get another excuse when i went back to them.

Yes there is fraud in the benefits system and i want it eliminated but it is not as endemic or large as some politicians and the media would like you to think. They want the public up in arm's about benefits so that the next time they come down harder on claimants the mass of the public will nod and not say a damn thing about level's of treatment that would have most people up in arm's if it happened to them.

The daddy please make sure you know what your on about before spouting off and don't fall for everything you hear from politicians and the media.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Speaking as someone on incapacity benefit TheDaddy may i suggest that before you go grabbing your large tar all brush you actually find out what the hell you are on about. For the record i know better then most how many skiving git's are on incapacity as i see them both in and out of hospital and it annoy's me and the other genuine claimants more then it annoy's you.

As for the longtime unemployed not being shunned yeah right more proof you have no idea what the hell you are on about. Before i was moved to incapacity benefit i (oh and i have a very professional curriculum vitae) I applied for over 500 jobs with a variety of reasons why i didn't get the job i attended 5 courses in all to get the qualifications company's said they wanted only to get another excuse when i went back to them.

The daddy please make sure you know what your on about before spouting off and don't fall for everything you hear from politicians and the media.

Actually I used to work with the long term unemployed, helping them back into work, it was very specialised and we only took the most difficult cases on, quite a few of them had been written of due to sickness or length of unemployment, some didn't even have a cv despite years on the dole and tbh I was absolutely disgusted at their treatment in a lot of cases, oh and I like the way you put words in my mouth, at no time have I said everyone on benefits is a scrounger and tbh it isn't the money the work shy and skivers take that bothers me as you suggest, it's the fact they are wasting time, you only live once

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I don't doubt the reasons why old Gordon said this, what I don't doubt either are the figures, they show that in 2005 social security fraud cost Britain tens of millions and a lot of that fraud was carers allowance, disability benefit and incapacity benefit rip offs and what I also don't doubt is that once people start claiming, just how easy it is for the powers that be to 'forget' about them

Tens of millions is a drop in the ocean.

If it is tens of millions the % would mean its a lot lower then 1 million people since 1 million is more then half claimants, thats quite a claim for a government to make to suggest more then half claimants are defrauding the system.

Of course when you compare it to government waste and tax evasion its pennies. Those 3 benefits you mention are recieved by a very vulnerable part of society who is unlikely to fight back in a way to affect a general election.

---------- Post added at 16:13 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Actually I used to work with the long term unemployed, helping them back into work, it was very specialised and we only took the most difficult cases on, quite a few of them had been written of due to sickness or length of unemployment, some didn't even have a cv despite years on the dole and tbh I was absolutely disgusted at their treatment in a lot of cases, oh and I like the way you put words in my mouth, at no time have I said everyone on benefits is a scrounger and tbh it isn't the money the work shy and skivers take that bothers me as you suggest, it's the fact they are wasting time, you only live once

Yeah we all know there is some level of fraud but he is bang on right that its been massively exaggerated with the bbc's help via prime time documentaries and news reports. Its all timed to soften up the public for a welfare reform bill.