still racist

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Russ B

There's a very low ethnic population around here and equally few ethnics working in major employers in the area.

Thanks.

In terms of proportions of Asians/Indians working in the companies I quoted, I think when I wrote high proportion it can be misleading. What I mean to say is there are a lot of(quite a few) Asians working there. In one of the firms I have worked in they employ approximately 4000 people across a number of buildings in London. The 3 floors I worked on in one building had approximately 400 people, of which I'd say 30 were Asian. So although there are a lot of Asians, it still makes up a low percentage of the workforce. I wouldn't say Asians make up more than 15 percent, its just that we see more because the firms employ more people as a whole.

Maybe these percentages are reflected nationwide.

[j52c]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

I do believe that there are a lot of White english people (I live in London) who do not want do do 'menial' jobs such as waitressing/waiting, cleaning, chambermaiding. The Hilton hotel in Purley way croydon would be paying the minimum wage to its chambermaids, why are they all black or eastern european? Is the Hilton discriminating, or are only these people applying for the job.

I think you may find that one of the main reasons that the labour is of ethnic origin is that a great amount of companies use Employment Agencies for recruiting staff for 'menial duties'. These Employment Agencies can make more money by signing eastern europeans on their books.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by j52c

I think you may find that one of the main reasons that the labour is of ethnic origin is that a great amount of companies use Employment Agencies for recruiting staff for 'menial duties'. These Employment Agencies can make more money by signing eastern europeans on their books.

The company I currently work for uses 2 agencies for a lot of its admin roles. I would say that 80 percent of the temps placed by these agencies in the department I work in (we would be talking approx 120 admin temps in total) are foreigners (South Africans/Eastern European). They get paid @ £80/day for 7.5hour days.

I have friends who are currently doing admin work on banking complaint projects where the daily rate for temp admin can be as high as 210 a day. A friend of mine is a team leader of 20 in such a project and he tells me that 80% are south africans and aussies.

So in this case its not like the agencies are paying low wages, so why is it that most of the positions are still taken up by immigrants.

[danielf]

210 a day for temp admin? That would rack up to 50k a year at 20 days a month for 12 months (about double the national average fulltime salary). What qualifications are required for this job?

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by danielf

210 a day for temp admin? That would rack up to 50k a year at 20 days a month for 12 months (about double the national average fulltime salary). What qualifications are required for this job?

Abbey National banking complaints are currently paying between 175 a day and 250 for roles ranging from admin to team leader.

I have a friend who blagged a team leader role, he works a 5pm to 10pm and he's on 250 a day for a 6month contract.

I personally know a dozen temps (mainly south african) who have got jobs there on anywhere between 175 and 210, evening shifts pay the most. For banking complaints you dont need to have FSA qualifications, and most of these guys are on admin roles (i.e case processing) and following a set structure/process.

THey are all on performance related contracts. If they do not meet their weekly targets then they are out, simple as that but thats the risk you take for a high return i guess.

The Abbey are so busy in Milton Keynes that the agency tells applicants that there is no physical desk space there anymore.

Another colleague of mine currently on 80 a day has an interview this week for a role in Pension Review (no FSA qualifications required) for 195 a day. He's austrailian.

The roles are 3 to 6 month contracts but most of the admin staff I know in my current role have been here a 9 months at least (but they are on 80 a day)

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

dole figures can be very deceiving

you will find about a third of that 1 million are those over 55 who have to sign on but are not going to be doing most of the jobs on offer for various reasons

about a another third will be in between jobs

and then you have the longterm unemployed who though most are willing to work wont get jobs from many firms as they tend to shun the long term jobless

They sure are deceiving, considering half the people claiming sickness benefit would be better of on the dole but what do peoples lives matter as long as the figures look nice, good point about the long term unemployed as well, who say's they are shunned, the dole office perhaps? The same dole office that has in a lot of cases left them to rot for years, without even bothering to check if they have cv's?

---------- Post added at 08:39 ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Stuart C

I've never used Polish workmen, but I know a few Poles. They are amongst the hardest working people I have met.

More than I can say for the English..

I have worked with hundreds of them and can honestly say they are no more hard working than anyone else, Britain has always worked the longest hours in Europe, that hasn't changed since the Polish arrived and in my experience neither has the output where I work

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I have worked with hundreds of them and can honestly say they are no more hard working than anyone else, Britain has always worked the longest hours in Europe, that hasn't changed since the Polish arrived and in my experience neither has the output where I work

I think Britain working the longest hours would be true of professional office jobs (most of the surveys I have read/come across) suggest this. I wouldnt say it is through across the whole workforce though.

When we recently did up our house we used english guys for central heating/electrics and a year or so later asian builders and jamaican plasterers for new kitchen & bathrooom and internal decorations.

From my experience the English guys came across as the least hard working, but maybe thats the nature of the job they were doing.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

I think Britain working the longest hours would be true of professional office jobs (most of the surveys I have read/come across) suggest this. I wouldnt say it is through across the whole workforce though.

With many jobs you have no option but to do a lot of hours if you want to earn any money and whilst people could argue that the ammount of hours spent in the workplace doesn't mean more work gets done, I'd say that would be due to poor management rather than laziness

Originally Posted by danielf

Interestingly, one of the least integrated groups (from what I gather), is the Chinese. Now there's a group that sticks to their own. Yet, you don't hear of trouble with the Chinese much.

That's not my experience at all.

The Chinese are the very best at integrating in the community whilst managing to retain their cultural identity.Every non English speaking Chinese student that I've ever had, has learned to speak English fluently in less than a year,most of them within 6 months.Yes some parents rely on their children at first but most learn enough to converse with the community through their children eventually.I've a great deal of respect for them.In fact I've respect for most Asians because most do make excellent students.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

I think Britain working the longest hours would be true of professional office jobs (most of the surveys I have read/come across) suggest this. I wouldnt say it is through across the whole workforce though.

When we recently did up our house we used english guys for central heating/electrics and a year or so later asian builders and jamaican plasterers for new kitchen & bathrooom and internal decorations.

From my experience the English guys came across as the least hard working, but maybe thats the nature of the job they were doing.

I'm sure there are hard working and lazy people of all races and nationalities, I really don't think you can have a sensible discussion about this on this forum based on personal views and experiences.

---------- Post added at 14:30 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

Originally Posted by Incognitas

That's not my experience at all.

The Chinese are the very best at integrating in the community whilst managing to retain their cultural identity.Every non English speaking Chinese student that I've ever had, has learned to speak English fluently in less than a year,most of them within 6 months.Yes some parents rely on their children at first but most learn enough to converse with the community through their children eventually.I've a great deal of respect for them.In fact I've respect for most Asians because most do make excellent students.

Indeed,I agree, I think the Chinese are an example of how to integrate into a society without losing your identity and basically not bothering anyone.

You never hear of Chinese burning flags or marching. You never hear of the Chinese council of Britain being offended every two minutes. Even when the Chinese form their own communities usually callled Chinatown in whatever city and whatever country it is usually a colourful place and non-threatening.

I think the Chinese are great.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

From my experience the English guys came across as the least hard working, but maybe thats the nature of the job they were doing.

I disagree entirely - the English people around here are no less hard-working than the Welsh, Poles, Scottish, Indians or anyone else.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I disagree entirely - the English people around here are no less hard-working than the Welsh, Poles, Scottish, Indians or anyone else.

In that case, listening to some people in this thread, no one at all works in Wales

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I disagree entirely - the English people around here are no less hard-working than the Welsh, Poles, Scottish, Indians or anyone else.

Like I said in the entirety of my post, I was talking about some English guys who came to do some work in my house, comparing to the Sikhs and Jamicans that were also working, not the entire nation.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

.
As is the case with most immigrants to this country.
For example the majority of asians that I know and see are working or running their own businesses and integrate very well into the community. Remember you dont have to spend all your spare time in the pub to integrate. It does suprise me that the only asians you seem to know, with the exception of your girlfriend dont integrate, they only mix with other asians, they all stash their money into the family pot on so called religious reasons.

I suggest you open your eyes a bit more outside your social circle and see what the majority of people do.

.

..
.
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In London if you visit the top companies such as Price Waterhouse, KPMG, Deloitte, HSBC, Morgan Stanley, all the London Hospitals, there is a high proportion of Asians working there (by which I mean Pakistanis and Indians). They seem to be integrated very well, and all these companies provide prayer rooms for people of ALL faiths. This is replicated in the midlands, Glasgow, quite a few places in fact.

I am beginning to think that your experience of seeing what asian immigrants do is limited to a very narrow and shallow experience.And I am specifically refering to Asians because in my opinion, based on a lot of posts you've written in the past, I feel that it is the Asian (particulary Pakistani muslim) immigrants that you have a big problem with.

If you read my post and take note you will see I said


1) Members of the filipino community in Cardiff have integrated well
2) The Indians I have worked with have been very friendly
3) The 2 pakistanis I worked with were certainly not
4) The 2 pakistanis put money into the family pot
5) The Chinese do not complain

I did not say

a) All Asian do not integrate
b) I did not say they all put money in the family pot
c) I did not say all Asians are controlled by religion

What I said was Asians who are controlled by religions are the ones that don't integrate well, I expect moving to another country controlled by the same religion would be easier for them. I did not tar all Asains with the same brush because Asia is a large area with many different cultures, some are friendly by nature and willing to get on with everyone else whilst others do not appear so.

PS. You are right, Pakistanis are the ones I have most difficulty with. but then again I also have a dislike for middle east gentlemen (term used loosely) who hang around groping white women in bars.

Actually a pakistani in my town was complained about in one of the local large chain pubs, he had been warned on various occasions for his lewd action and groping women. He was banned from the establishment, and as a result drafted a letter of complaint threatening action against them for being racist. The pub manager went back on his ban and he is now allowed back in the premises, he used the race card as a threat when it had nothing to do with his race or skin colour but everything to do with the way he conducted himself.

[sssshhhh]

[QUOTEPS. You are right, Pakistanis are the ones I have most difficulty with. but then again I also have a dislike for middle east gentlemen (term used loosely) who hang around groping white women in bars........................
Actually a pakistani in my town was complained about in one of the local large chain pubs, he had been warned on various occasions for his lewd action and groping women. He was banned from the establishment, and as a result drafted a letter of complaint threatening action against them for being racist. The pub manager went back on his ban and he is now allowed back in the premises, he used the race card as a threat when it had nothing to do with his race or skin colour but everything to do with the way he conducted himself.][/QUOTE]

Whilst I can see, sort of, that you do not mean to imply anything untoward in your posts, can you not see that the language you use and the way in which you construct your sentences will lead people to think otherwise?