MERGED - Prisoner Abuse

I supported the war for those reasons!

[xaq141175]

Originally Posted by punky

The one (and only one) point that makes sense is the clean gun. I know the SA-80s are standard issue, but are extremely fragile, especially in dusty/desert environments. The guns would have to be stripped and cleaned down more or less every day. Certainly every couple of days, even if it been stored indoors. So the gun would of been relatively clean, but i'm still not totally convinced because there still would of been scratches, knocks, etc.

Good points punky

also, isn't the gun of the wrong type too ? ... a type I where'as the SA80's issued are type II's ... something like that anyway.

Wrong guns and wrong truck or something

[Defiant]

Originally Posted by punky

The one (and only one) point that makes sense is the clean gun. I know the SA-80s are standard issue, but are extremely fragile, especially in dusty/desert environments. The guns would have to be stripped and cleaned down more or less every day.

Its the inside thats the most important part of the gun being clean. They are trained to take this weapon apart in around 2 1/2 minutes. Cleaning the inside doesn't take that long either. I dont think it matters too much about the outside of the weapon

yeah well, its just typical and was always going to happen.

Tough **** really, I doubt the Iraqis expected any better after the appalling treatment of our prisoners in 1991.
Theres not a lot anyone can do about the USA and its often out of control soldiers etc.

As for the generalisations......They voted the government in to speak for them (this is called Democracy), technically the governments actions can and should be classed as actions by all americans. Especially if it gets that ****ing idiot out of the whitehouse.

Whilst I understand the outcry about the treatment, humiliation isnt exactly a bloodthirsty crime is it? come on as kids we all created humiliation for others at somepoint. Torture? well lets talk about torture and specifically the torture the Iraqis inflicted on the coalition forces captured back in 1991. End of ****ing story, what goes around comes around, the Americans rightly or wrongly are using it as payback.

You cant break every rule of the geneva convention and then expect it to work for you, it simply wont happen. I also challange anyone to treat with kindness someone that not so long ago may have been trying to kill you, or may have killed some of your friends and hung their carved up bodies from a bridge.

[TheBlueRaja]

Who cares about the gun, he was supposedly beaten for eight hours beforehand and yet theres not a scratch on him AND his T-Shirt is good enough for a Daz commercial.

The mirror is covering its ass, at least with these photos.

[punky]

Originally Posted by xaq141175

Good points punky

also, isn't the gun of the wrong type too ? ... a type I where'as the SA80's issued are type II's ... something like that anyway.

That was one of the points the soldiers couldn't explain. They said they were given MkIIs, but said that the didn't mean someone wasn't gvien a MkI. Doesn't really explain a lot either way.

Originally Posted by Defiant

Its the inside thats the most important part of the gun being clean. They are trained to take this weapon apart in around 2 1/2 minutes. Cleaning the inside doesn't take that long either. I dont think it matters too much about the outside of the weapon

While the firing mechanism and inside barrel are the only bits that need to be clean, automatically, through habit (and just for pride really), they clean the outside and polish it up. But I' personally still expect to see scratches, knocks, etc. Those don't really polish out.

[Defiant]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...tos/index.html

"The two squaddies (British soldiers) admit they cannot answer questions regarding minor details in the photos which were taken months ago," said the newspaper.

Why not. They should know why an old Mk1 SA80 just happened to be in the picture for starters.

They also say the alleged captive's shirt depicts the pre-1988 Iraqi flag and is too clean to be that old.

Yep its like someone here having an old English football shirt from 1988. Its not going to look new after all this time is it


I think the Mirror should apologise to the QLR regiment and British public for this all mighty ****-up

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Graham

Xaccers, do *YOU* have any *PROOF* of these accusations? That the Mirror really would "rather have kept Saddam in power"? That they deliberately published them "to damage the work we are doing to rebuild Iraq and relations in the middle east"?

How about the editor stating on TV that we were wrong to go to war to oust saddam? That he believed we should not have ousted the leader of another country? That his paper would do all that it could to prove our government shouldn't have done it?
And do you honestly believe that when they were given these images, the damage publishing them would do never crossed their minds? They could have reported that they had been passed images but had done the sensible thing in giving them to the army to investigate.

[xaq141175]

Originally Posted by theblueraja

... AND his T-Shirt is good enough for a Daz commercial.

[punky]

That's a good point about the t-shirt Defiant.

I've just done a quick look up on the SA-80-A1, and apparently the A1 was swapped for the A2 in 2001. Now given how bad the A1 was and the fact it is 3 years later, I thought it would be unlikely the A1 turned up in combat. But then again, in combat, with resources stretched, I don't it is that far thinking to believe that an A1 might get used eventually. This is why we need an independent person from the Armed Forces, to tell us how it is out there, one way or other.

Xaccers: The Mirror aside, how about Galloway? I mean he managed to get so far up Saddam's sphincter, he was able to remove Saddam's fillings. Rumsfeld might well have been forced to go there and be nice to him, some 20 years ago, but Galloway is in another league entirely. He always praised Saddam, and always wanted him to remain in power. He was never shy about saying it in public either. Again, I would of thought he would be been an unlikely role model for bleeding heart liberals.

[TheBlueRaja]

Just E-mailed the Mirror with this...

Hello,
I wish to express my disgust at the publishing of these pictures by your paper without any sort of proof about the authenticity of them to begin with. I would suggest that in the future you seriously consider the consequences of your actions, before going ahead with further stories regarding this subject. If you had unequivocal proof of the authenticity of the subject matter I would have given you full backing regarding their release, however all we have is some very suspicious photos and a couple of pictures of some blurred soldiers faces who tell us they are real but provide no evidence.

Why donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t you do release the identities of these people, it is now as you so commonly put it when it suits you, †œin the interest of the general publicââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ�.

By publishing these photographs you have already made a very tough job even harder for our soldiers in Iraq irrespective about your view on whether the war was right or wrong, and I hope that the next time an allied soldier gets taken hostage they are not treated unfairly due to a direct result of these picture being published with no proof. There are real people out there, putting their lives on the line every day with families back here †“ you would do well to remember that before jumping on the bandwagon to cash in next time.

I agree, Galloway really let down the tone of the anti-war people. As did the mirror i dont now why they used those as resources for their campaign! Again I believe a lot of people just wanted to 1) Protest against something 2) Wanted to appear as a moral person 3) Jumping on the bandwagon.

All these people really let down the people who did have real concerns. Those real anti-war people although I disagree with them I respected there views. Shame that the fact that there were so many people who did not return the favor usually those posers annoyed me.

Originally Posted by theblueraja

Just E-mailed the Mirror with this...

Hello,
I wish to express my disgust at the publishing of these pictures by your paper without any sort of proof about the authenticity of them to begin with. I would suggest that in the future you seriously consider the consequences of your actions, before going ahead with further stories regarding this subject. If you had unequivocal proof of the authenticity of the subject matter I would have given you full backing regarding their release, however all we have is some very suspicious photos and a couple of pictures of some blurred soldiers faces who tell us they are real but provide no evidence.

Why donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t you do release the identities of these people, it is now as you so commonly put it when it suits you, †œin the interest of the general publicââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ�.

By publishing these photographs you have already made a very tough job even harder for our soldiers in Iraq irrespective about your view on whether the war was right or wrong, and I hope that the next time an allied soldier gets taken hostage they are not treated unfairly due to a direct result of these picture being published with no proof. There are real people out there, putting their lives on the line every day with families back here †“ you would do well to remember that before jumping on the bandwagon to cash in next time.

I dount that will cut a lot of ice with them

They will look at sales figures to decide whats right. What would be a lot more damaging is public attacks. Newspapers care about public views

[TheBlueRaja]

True - but at least im trying to do something.

Im more interested to see if i get a reply.