MERGED - Prisoner Abuse

[downquark1]

Is this a war-crime violation?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3672117.stm

[Bifta]

Someone should point out to the amazingly stupid Americans a few things that are prohibited under the Geneva Convention, such as:

1. Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture

2. Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Bifta

Someone should point out to the amazingly stupid Americans a few things that are prohibited under the Geneva Convention, such as:

1. Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture

2. Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

They are a law unto themselves... treaties, agreements etc. means jack s**t to them m8.

Originally Posted by Julian

They are a law unto themselves... treaties, agreements etc. means jack s**t to them m8.

A bit of a generalization isn't it? These acts are appalling and clearly a violation of the war crimes convention. The last thing that needs to happen is this, Just when some Iraqis where comparing the us force to saddam they go a commit crimes that are on there way to being as bad as saddam (although no where near as bad).

But I dont think its fair to blame americans as it was a few of them which hardly represent the entire US army? After all they where stopped by a american solder leaking pictures, by a news channel based in the usa, and arrested and about to be taken to court by the usa

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Damien

A bit of a generalization isn't it? These acts are appalling and clearly a violation of the war crimes convention. The last thing that needs to happen is this, Just when some Iraqis where comparing the us force to saddam they go a commit crimes that are on there way to being as bad as saddam (although no where near as bad).

But I dont think its fair to blame americans as it was a few of them which hardly represent the entire US army? After all they where stopped by a american solder leaking pictures, by a news channel based in the usa, and arrested and about to be taken to court by the usa

I was referring to the actual people who committed these acts, not the general US populace, I don't think Julian was tarring them all with the same brush either, it's the US government who choose to ignore treaties etc.

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Damien

A bit of a generalization isn't it? These acts are appalling and clearly a violation of the war crimes convention. The last thing that needs to happen is this, Just when some Iraqis where comparing the us force to saddam they go a commit crimes that are on there way to being as bad as saddam (although no where near as bad).

But I dont think its fair to blame americans as it was a few of them which hardly represent the entire US army? After all they where stopped by a american solder leaking pictures, by a news channel based in the usa, and arrested and about to be taken to court by the usa

Rightly so. But I think the international community will be less eager to grant war-crime immunity in the future.

oh sorry i thought you where saying that 'Americans' break treaties and such. Meaning all of them

My mistake, Withdraw comment, misunderstanding

[andygrif]

Without wishing to in any way defend the mis-treatment of prisoners - I would think that there is a fine line between abuse and investigation.

Although this douesn't appear to be the work of military inteligence (if that's not a contradiction in terms) during conflict, sometimes you need to find out answers. And sometimes you don't get answers just by asking someone a question.

That doesn't give carte blanche to anyone who feels like abusing a prisoner, but I think we don't yet know the full story enough to comment properly.

Originally Posted by andygrif

Without wishing to in any way defend the mis-treatment of prisoners - I would think that there is a fine line between abuse and investigation.

Although this douesn't appear to be the work of military inteligence (if that's not a contradiction in terms) during conflict, sometimes you need to find out answers. And sometimes you don't get answers just by asking someone a question.

That doesn't give carte blanche to anyone who feels like abusing a prisoner, but I think we don't yet know the full story enough to comment properly.

I agree, but this case is simply barbaric and wrong. It is clear that it was abuse instead of investigation but I understand what your saying clearly

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Bifta

I was referring to the actual people who committed these acts, not the general US populace, I don't think Julian was tarring them all with the same brush either, it's the US government who choose to ignore treaties etc.

Exactly. And the "government" of that country who send in soldiers with a gung-ho mentality.

Ask yourself this - Why has there been more trouble with the Iraquis in those parts of the country that are "looked after" by the yanks?

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by andygrif

Although this douesn't appear to be the work of military inteligence (if that's not a contradiction in terms) during conflict, sometimes you need to find out answers. And sometimes you don't get answers just by asking someone a question.

That's the reason the Geneva Convention is there .. If people begin to think it's acceptable to act like the Americans (soldiers) did then how long before it escalates and the Americans start executing POW's after periods of prolonged torture?

[Marge]

Those pictures are horrendous, I would be really raging if that were British soldiers that had been ridiculed and abused so I can imagine the Iraqi people aren't best pleased. The excuse by one of scrotes that he hadn't been trained properly is about typical, when the sh*t hits the fan blame someone else. Boot the buggers out and get them done for war crimes.

Originally Posted by andygrif

Without wishing to in any way defend the mis-treatment of prisoners - I would think that there is a fine line between abuse and investigation.

Although this douesn't appear to be the work of military inteligence (if that's not a contradiction in terms) during conflict, sometimes you need to find out answers. And sometimes you don't get answers just by asking someone a question.

That doesn't give carte blanche to anyone who feels like abusing a prisoner, but I think we don't yet know the full story enough to comment properly.

Ok then, can you suggest any possible scenario where it would be correct to treat prisoners in this manner while take photos of your army buddies standing around laughing and giving a thumbs up? Because unless you can explain how that can be a legitimate and useful part of interrogation then I don`t think we need to wait for the rest of the story.

[darkangel]

Originally Posted by Bifta

If people begin to think it's acceptable to act like the Americans (soldiers) did then how long before it escalates and the Americans start executing POW's after periods of prolonged torture?

i don't think anyone would try to justify something as blatant as this, u more than most people here should understand this isn't just an American problem.

Originally Posted by andygrif

Without wishing to in any way defend the mis-treatment of prisoners - I would think that there is a fine line between abuse and investigation.

Although this douesn't appear to be the work of military inteligence (if that's not a contradiction in terms) during conflict, sometimes you need to find out answers. And sometimes you don't get answers just by asking someone a question.

That doesn't give carte blanche to anyone who feels like abusing a prisoner, but I think we don't yet know the full story enough to comment properly.

No-one is saying there is no need for legitimate investigation. What most of us are saying, is that we can see no circumstances under which a legitimate investigation could result in prisoners being required to simulate sex acts with each other, or have electrodes attached to their balls.

I can't wait to hear the full story. Listening to those animals trying to explain their way out of this is going to be very entertaining.