MERGED - Prisoner Abuse

[punky]

Downquark1: While the British had the easier job (probably why the US gave it to us), it's basically army policies that separate why the British forces are better recieved than the American ones. I know one key thing i've read about is that America relies very much on technology (satelites, spy planes, etc), however the British have always relied on ground intelligence. Like meeting tribal elders, giving them incentives and getting good quality information back. This creates a better feeling among the people, than cutting them out the loop. But that is not the case totally though. America's reputation is so bad that I don't really think they anything they do to win hearts and minds would work.

Apparently though, i've just heard that some British soldiers (2 I think) are in trouble over alledged photographs. One was of a guy urinating on a prisoner. I can't remember what the other one was. It is in tomorrow's Mirror..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3675215.stm

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by punky

Apparently though, i've just heard that some British soldiers (2 I think) are in trouble over alledged photographs. One was of a guy urinating on a prisoner. I can't remember what the other one was. It is in tomorrow's Mirror..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3675215.stm

Is it me or is every reason for the war being thrown back at us with an ironic twist?

[Nikko]

Taken from downquark1's link:

In a press conference, Sir Michael Jackson, Chief of the General Staff, said: "If proven, not only is such appalling conduct clearly unlawful but also contravenes the British Army's high standards of conduct.

Isn't he defending himself elsewhere, currently? could be an unlucky coincidence I suppose.....but surely not - they will be calling on Press Secretary, Marquis de Sade next

[downquark1]

Apparently the media is putting troops in extra danger by reporting this.
Fox new's top spin man

Here's an idea why not blame those soldiers for doing it, the media hasn't just invented this.

[andygrif]

Well it's interesting to note that there is now some talk of the US troops being requested to perform these acts on the Iraqi prisoners in preparation for interrogation, which is what I was saying yesterday.

Like I said I don't necessarily agree with their actions, but surely this does put a different take on matters.

Originally Posted by andygrif

Well it's interesting to note that there is now some talk of the US troops being requested to perform these acts on the Iraqi prisoners in preparation for interrogation, which is what I was saying yesterday.

Like I said I don't necessarily agree with their actions, but surely this does put a different take on matters.

They were requested to goof around and take photographs of themselves having a laugh with the prisoners? Talk about damning with faint praise. If that is the case then the superior who ordered those actions should be court-martialled as well.

But let's face it, that's all spin and BS in an attempt to try and claw back from the position the army currently finds itself in. Here's a little logical problem for you to try out. You say that the troops had been requested to perform these acts. One of the soldiers involved has gone on record to say that the reason that they had performed these acts is because they had *no* instructions from their superior, so they were too retarded to realise that this was not an acceptable course of action (what they were doing in the army in the first place I don`t know, I wouldn`t trust them to flip a burger). There would seem to be a discrepancy between the various stories being thrown around.

[BBKing]

I've seen one or two reports (in the Guardian, mainly, which is why I'm taking it with a pinch of salt for now) that US Military Intelligence was behind the mistreatment of prisoners, which is why the Army and Bush are pushing the 'few bad eggs doing it of their own accord' thing - presumably a few thugs will be hung out to dry but the real people behind it will be quietly moved.

Remember that Gen. Jackson was heavily involved on Bloody Sunday (second-in-command in fact), which goes to show that you can make a damn good Army career out of being a 'disgrace to the Queen's uniform'.

Originally Posted by downquark1

Apparently the media is putting troops in extra danger by reporting this.
Fox new's top spin man

Here's an idea why not blame those soldiers for doing it, the media hasn't just invented this.

I`m not sure you can trust the opinion of anyone who uses the word "jihadist", perhaps "mujahadeen" was too hard for him to pronounce.

[Xaccers]

investigate
hold a televised court marshal
kick the guilty out of the forces totally dishonoured
broadcast it all on al jezera to show that we find this totally unacceptable and will deal with such things in a serious manner
get bush and blair to appologise to the iraqi people for the soldiers action, reiterating that we will not stand for such behaviour

Originally Posted by Xaccers

investigate
hold a televised court marshal
kick the guilty out of the forces totally dishonoured
broadcast it all on al jezera to show that we find this totally unacceptable and will deal with such things in a serious manner
get bush and blair to appologise to the iraqi people for the soldiers action, reiterating that we will not stand for such behaviour

And then sit back and enjoy the specatcle of hell freezing over, accompanied by an aerobatic display by the Red Arrows, Porcine Squadron.

[punky]

I know that things like that normally can go on in the course of trying to do what's best, but I don't think it is the case here. I think it's a few soldiers having a sick joke. I know that in jobs of high stress (police, fire service) sick jokes normally help the people deal with the stress of it all, so some people may forgive them for that, but i'm not so sure... Doing it is one thing, but photographing it for your mates and sharing it round? That's too far. Even if the soldiers were ordered to do it by a superior, i'm sure they wern't ordered to photograph it. Which leads me to an interesting question:

Given the damage caused by the photos, and the trouble it is going to cause for everyone, do you think it is right the press released them?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

I know that things like that normally can go on in the course of trying to do what's best, but I don't think it is the case here. I think it's a few soldiers having a sick joke. I know that in jobs of high stress (police, fire service) sick jokes normally help the people deal with the stress of it all, so some people may forgive them for that, but i'm not so sure... Doing it is one thing, but photographing it for your mates and sharing it round? That's too far. Even if the soldiers were ordered to do it by a superior, i'm sure they wern't ordered to photograph it. Which leads me to an interesting question:

Given the damage caused by the photos, and the trouble it is going to cause for everyone, do you think it is right the press released them?

If you are suggesting it should have been covered up, then I say no. This kind of behaviour is totally unacceptable, and anyone who is in a position where he/she might do something similar in the future should see it does not go unpunished.

[Defiant]

After seeing some of these image's I was thinking to myself something looks odd. I've just watched it again on Skynews and someone mentioned that they looked staged. Now they also stated that they think someone from the QLR regiment sent these picture's in. Has anyone thought that these could have been staged here though. I know I can go to Manchester city centre and buy British Army Desert Combats and Boots. None of the people that were supposed to be getting tortured were shown either?. If it were staged that may give the whole thing away though don't you think !



Just something to think about

[Xaccers]

are the soldiers faces shown?
if so it will be easy to prove its a fake

[Defiant]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

are the soldiers faces shown?
if so it will be easy to prove its a fake

Not the picture's I've seen but then again nor are the so called prisoners ?