Students Rioting in London. - Page 57

**Hugh** · 22-12-2010, 11:00

Helluva paradigm shift there, FB - from not wearing epaulettes to being a "rogue officer".

Flyboy · 22-12-2010, 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Helluva paradigm shift there, FB - from not wearing epaulettes to being a "rogue officer".

I am just trying figure out why apparently this one solitary officer was the only one to have not worn their shoulder number, when seemingly all the others were able to do it. If it is so easy to forget to change the epaulettes when changing clothes, I am struggling to undertsand why more didn't manage it.

Sirius · 22-12-2010, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Helluva paradigm shift there, FB - from not wearing epaulettes to being a "rogue officer".

It was on the Flyboy and Sparkle show so it must be right

.

Just adding a bit of humour as some seem to have a problem distinguishing what humour is .

Stuart · 22-12-2010, 11:12

Do you know, I am staggered. I have not seen one of the members who have criticised the police actually criticise those rioters who committed violence. This makes me think that they aren't (despite Sparkle's protestations to the contrary earlier) really that interested in the plight of any current or future students, more in using it the students plight as an excuse to criticise the Police.

I am no massive fan of the Police (I believe that when the Police do wrong they should be punished), but I am sickened by this hijaking of a legitimate reason for protest by various people to further their own ends.

Sirius · 22-12-2010, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart

Do you know, I am staggered. I have not seen one of the members who have criticised the police actually criticise those rioters who committed violence. This makes me think that they aren't (despite Sparkle's protestations to the contrary earlier) really that interested in the plight of any current or future students, more in using it the students plight as an excuse to criticise the Police.

I am no massive fan of the Police (I believe that when the Police do wrong they should be punished), but I am sickened by this hijaking of a legitimate reason for protest by various people to further their own ends.

To quote one of the student leaders.

It was a good natured sometimes radical protest but good natured. Yea right and I'm the queen of Sheba

In fact let them give us the qoute again shall we

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InjVp...layer_embedded

Derek · 22-12-2010, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Not that I disbelieve you, but could you tell me when and which select committee it was

No idea, it was being covered on Sky News a day or so after the riots and heard from Sir Paul Stephenson and some others including IIRC the NUS president.

Flyboy · 22-12-2010, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart

Do you know, I am staggered. I have not seen one of the members who have criticised the police actually criticise those rioters who committed violence. This makes me think that they aren't (despite Sparkle's protestations to the contrary earlier) really that interested in the plight of any current or future students, more in using it the students plight as an excuse to criticise the Police.

I am no massive fan of the Police (I believe that when the Police do wrong they should be punished), but I am sickened by this hijaking of a legitimate reason for protest by various people to further their own ends.

I am pretty sure that is not the case. However, why should it be that any criticism of the police has to be accompanied by criticism of the protesters? I have not supported any violence. All I have done is question the behavior of some, not all, officers. But going by the post of some you'd think that anyone who highlights their failings must be in support of violent protest. For me, I prefer non-violent resistance, it has more of an impact. But it is often turned into rioting, by those who are being resisted and those who accept all rubbish they get told to believe.

---------- Post added at 12:20 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek

No idea, it was being covered on Sky News a day or so after the riots and heard from Sir Paul Stephenson and some others including IIRC the NUS president.

I have had a good search of google and can find nothing, you would have that something like this would have been reported.

Sparkle · 22-12-2010, 11:28

Looks like the unions are coming on board :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...upport-protest

Flyboy · 22-12-2010, 11:30

I have even read the Sky News report on that meeting and they haven't even mention it. I do know that Keith Vaz, the committee chairperson, said he intended to ask the Home Secretary to explain what had happened, but I can't seem to find any detailed reports on the meeting.

Sparkle · 22-12-2010, 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart

Do you know, I am staggered. I have not seen one of the members who have criticised the police actually criticise those rioters who committed violence. This makes me think that they aren't (despite Sparkle's protestations to the contrary earlier) really that interested in the plight of any current or future students, more in using it the students plight as an excuse to criticise the Police.

I am no massive fan of the Police (I believe that when the Police do wrong they should be punished), but I am sickened by this hijaking of a legitimate reason for protest by various people to further their own ends.

Who's "they"?
Are you genuinely implying that my only involvment with this movement (despite the many years I've already been involved in peaceful protest on this issue, and only this issue) is to attack the police ?
Is that honestly the conclusion you've come to, despite everything that's been said?

Please tell me I've misunderstood.

---------- Post added at 13:03 ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 ----------

Actually, on second thought - it doesn't really matter. Its clear where I stand on this issue, and my interests do not lie with the police. They are a non-entity as far as I'm conderned. The politicians make the rules, the police just enforce them. No philosophy and no thinking required from them. They're just uniformed henchmen of the aristocracy, paid to follow orders.
So naturally, I'm more interested in seeing some common sense in parliament (for once) - which would do this country wonders.

Regardless of which side of the fence any of you find yourselves, the fact remains that there WILL be more protests.
There WILL be more violence, and it looks like this is indeed turning into a winter of discontent. If the trade unions get involved (as it looks they might) this is really going to kick off to a magnitude not seen in this country for at least a generation.

So assuming the above, what next? If this is the reality, how do we best adjust to it? Moan about it?
I suggest lets make some good of it. Teach these lying politicians a lesson they won't forget for a long time. For instance, we could implement a revolutionary change to the government system that will ensure ministers are accountable (to the public) for their actions even AFTER election time.
Its clear our system of government is dated, and need of change.
Change that will not come from within the government itself, they cannot be trusted to "self regulate". Perhaps the power is almost in reach to finally turn this country into the democracy is was always destined to become.

I don't wish to see anyone get hurt, but I think it's pertinent to remember that people's lives are being ruined under the current system, and that's what must stop. So, to achieve that goal - what is the price worth paying?

**Hugh** · 22-12-2010, 12:09

Ah, the old "the ends justifies the means" proposition.....

btw

Quote:

They're just uniformed henchmen of the aristocracy

Excuse me whilst I pmsl - nice to see Class Warfare alive and kicking; I thought the dinosaurs were extinct?

Sparkle · 22-12-2010, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Ah, the old "the ends justifies the means" proposition.....

You're darned right. But we're not talking about killing 7 million Jews to create a master race, so lets keep some perpective

I'm talking about giving the government a scare, let them know enough is enough.

**Hugh** · 22-12-2010, 12:13

Loved the pre-emptive extreme example.......

I was thinking more of widespread rioting, damage, and people injured - mind you, for a class warrior, I suppose anarchy is the end-game in itself...

Sparkle · 22-12-2010, 12:19

I'm hoping the unions come on board, then its possible that there won't necessarily be any rioting. Just protests in every major city - which should get the message across nicely.
Then the big question will be whether or not the politicians take any notice. If not, then yes I agree anarchy (ine one form or another) will be in the pipeline unfortunately.

Derek · 22-12-2010, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I have had a good search of google and can find nothing, you would have that something like this would have been reported.

My mistake, it was an assistant commissioner. It was the Joint Committee on Human Rights.

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Pl...meetingId=7310

At 14:04 minutes the numbers issue is covered.

---------- Post added at 13:19 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

1 out of 8000 not wearing numbers. I can accept those numbers.