SKY vs Cable

[m419]

How long will SKY last for????

SKY currently seems to be the top of the range company with the most customers. Now that SKY has purchased Easynet, BT may well stop helping SKY recieve customers and since that SKY and BT are seperate companies, rentals and subcriptions are not combined like Cable providers and means that SKY and BT users will end up paying an extra £20 than they would with Cable companies. In fact, Wight Cable has a no line rental telephone package available with the 3-2-1 telephone plan. SKY customers also have to maintain their SKY boxes themselves and pay for any repairs, unlike Telewest and NTL who still own the box and will repair the box for you at no extra cost unless the damage is your fault.

SKY customers will eventually get fed up and move over to Cable or analogue terrestrial which is not what the goverment wants!

Freeview and top-up-tv has poor reception and customers have to buy the box and and new aerials.

Cable will probably remain the UK's favourite and when NTL and Telewest finally become one, the cable company may want to expand it's network to streets which are not currently covered.

Clacton-on-sea and Harwich on the south east Anglia coast in Essex is where Rediffusion Cable Vision was based and there is no cable operator their at all! The nearest is NTL (East coast cable Ltd) which covers Colchester, since these are large towns, why is that there is no cable service available their. BT have only recently launched it's broadband service in that area. I reckon it would cost around £200 to £500 Million to cable these towns. Maybe Wight Cable might think of something! Or a new cable company which will work with BT (Cable company providing: Cable TV,interactive services and BT providing: Telephone and Broadband services.)

Most of the rediffusion equipment and cabling still survives in a terrible state, in the small part of Clacton called Jaywick, Jaywick is independent from Essex County Council and local council which is why the equipment has never been ripped out as they don't want to spend money. The cabinets on the streets are vandalised with cables hanging out, some housing still has the indoor switches ect....

SKY will be another failure in a few years and hope they go into recievership.

[Wicked_and_Crazy]

i dont think cable tv would be a lot of use with out sky. or should i say, it would lose a lot of subscribers without sky being there

[m419]

Before 1998, SKY was hardly heard of and Cable companies had a very large number of customers subscribing to just analogue TV with each customer spending up to £20 a month on services. However, telephone services from cable operators has always varied, at the moment, Telewest's phone service has many subscribers compared to 2002.

And why should cable disappear if SKY did?

The cable companies are not reliant on SKY or BT, I think BT and SKY are more reliant on the cable companies! BT has recently used NTL to supply online voice services for it's customers and SKY carries all the Flextech channels which is owned by Telewest.

In addition, Cable companies allow SKY premium channels to be carried through to their customers at an addition cost to the customer. Cable companies could drop these at anytime, I don't think that many customers do use the sky premium channels as they are too expensive. In 1998, Telewest reviewed SKY news, according to Telewest, viewing levels were considerably low compared to BBC News 24.

If SKY stopped carrying Flextech channels, then no one would subscribe as most other channels are just a load of crap!

Originally Posted by Wicked_and_Crazy

i dont think cable tv would be a lot of use with out sky. or should i say, it would lose a lot of subscribers without sky being there

[sweaty]

I don't think rupert murdoch, my boss would let it go bust.


NTL arent cabling new sites in existing areas and are pulling out of some existing areas citing low or no revenue return. I've worked for both NTL, BT and now Sky. Sky with it infrastructure make even BT look poorly organised and NTL, well a complete shower of .....

The BT and Sky deal was never going to last and there have always been spats between them.

[gazzae]

Originally Posted by m419

SKY customers also have to maintain their SKY boxes themselves and pay for any repairs, unlike Telewest and NTL who still own the box and will repair the box for you at no extra cost unless the damage is your fault.

In my experience all you have to say is "Oh I can't afford to pay for that repair, I guess I'll just have to cancel." then they will send someone out for free.

[sweaty]

don't always work.

However with the churn figures at the moment it might

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by m419

How long will SKY last for????

SKY currently seems to be the top of the range company with the most customers. Now that SKY has purchased Easynet, BT may well stop helping SKY recieve customers and since that SKY and BT are seperate companies, rentals and subcriptions are not combined like Cable providers and means that SKY and BT users will end up paying an extra £20 than they would with Cable companies.

Where do you get your maths from? By my addition a Family Pack TV service, a standard phone line and a 2mb broadband line costs pretty much the same with Sky, BT and an ISP as it does with NTL. Also with Sky's proposal to buy Easynet (and the mumblings about Homechoice) Sky is in the position that NTL is currently in, able to offer discounted triple-play services.

Originally Posted by m419

SKY customers will eventually get fed up and move over to Cable or analogue terrestrial which is not what the goverment wants!

You don't explain why they will get fed up and move from a system that offers hundreds of channels to a system that offers five. If they did get fed up enough to move to terrestrial it would be more likekly they would go an buy a 30 quid FreeView box than go back to analaog. And that IS what the government wants.

Originally Posted by m419

Freeview and top-up-tv has poor reception and customers have to buy the box and and new aerials.

FreeView has good reception for the vast majority of the country - and by the time of the digital switchover it will be as good as the analog coverage.

Originally Posted by m419

Cable will probably remain the UK's favourite and when NTL and Telewest finally become one, the cable company may want to expand it's network to streets which are not currently covered.

Please define "favourite". I assume you mean most subscribed, in which case it can't "remain favourite" as it is currently the least subscribed of the three options to receive digital TV.

You're right, the NewCo might being rolling out more cabled areas, but I seriously doubt it. Laying cables is limited these days as it costs more to do than they get back - the reason? Becuase people prefer FreeView or Sky, not cable.

Originally Posted by m419

SKY will be another failure in a few years and hope they go into recievership.

Ah....and the end of the world is nigh too.

Sky have been around for 16 years. There are 25 million homes in the UK, nearly 8 million of which have Sky. I doubt they're going anywhere anytime soon.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by andygrif

Where do you get your maths from? By my addition a Family Pack TV service, a standard phone line and a 2mb broadband line costs pretty much the same with Sky, BT and an ISP as it does with NTL. Also with Sky's proposal to buy Easynet (and the mumblings about Homechoice) Sky is in the position that NTL is currently in, able to offer discounted triple-play services.

I *think* that ntl's 'Triple Play' only gives 512k BB though.....

[m419]

NTL may not have any plans as yet, but could decide something in the next 10 to 15 years. They might just shock SKY by cabling streets just out of the blue unexpectedly as they will try any trick in the book!

You are right, NTL and Telewest are decommisioning a few sites which have never been used or low income sites as they have to pay business rates to local councils for each property they run cables on which isn't easy for cable companies or BT infact!

Vodafone has recently de-installed a few of it's mobile masts and relocated some whilst others have been withdrawn completely.

BT Payphones has been removing it's public payphones over the last 4 years.

NWP purchased 1000 interphone public payphones, only 750 kiosks were replaced with new ones.

All of the above problems are being caused by the high tax rates and rents!

Originally Posted by sweaty

I don't think rupert murdoch, my boss would let it go bust.


NTL arent cabling new sites in existing areas and are pulling out of some existing areas citing low or no revenue return. I've worked for both NTL, BT and now Sky. Sky with it infrastructure make even BT look poorly organised and NTL, well a complete shower of .....

The BT and Sky deal was never going to last and there have always been spats between them.

[m419]

BT Line rental: £11.50
SKY Subscription(Lowest pack): £19.50
BT Broadband 512K: £15.00
Total: £46.00

NTL Family pack and telephone line rental: £19.50
NTL Broadband 512K: £14.99
Total: £35.49

Telewest's version of family pack known as supreme is £15.50 per month which is £4 cheaper than SKY and NTL. NTL will probably lower this to £15.50 next year. And Wight Cable's is also £15

BT Anonymous caller rejection: £4 per month
NTL Anonymous Caller rejection: £1.75 per month
Telewest Anonymous caller Reject: £1.50
Wight Cable Anonymous caller reject: £1.00

New BT line installation: £75 to £99.99
NTL: £50 to £74.99
Telewest: £10 to £50 (usually £25)
Wight Cable: £50

BT Together option 3: £29.99 (Including line rental)
Telewest Talk unlimited: £26.50 (Including line rental)
BT Line rental: £11.50
Telewest line rental: £10.50 together with free weekend calls.
Wight Cable standard: No line rental.

SKY Customer services 0870: 8p per minute
Telewest Customer service: Free
NTL Customer service: Free
Wight Cable: Free
BT Customer service: Free (Although a very long queue)

Other advantages:

Telewest and NTL accept debit card payments, SKY and BT only accept major credit cards.

Teleport: A bright new service coming very soon, hopefully, this would wipe the smile of SKY's face!

Originally Posted by andygrif

Where do you get your maths from? By my addition a Family Pack TV service, a standard phone line and a 2mb broadband line costs pretty much the same with Sky, BT and an ISP as it does with NTL. Also with Sky's proposal to buy Easynet (and the mumblings about Homechoice) Sky is in the position that NTL is currently in, able to offer discounted triple-play services.




You don't explain why they will get fed up and move from a system that offers hundreds of channels to a system that offers five. If they did get fed up enough to move to terrestrial it would be more likekly they would go an buy a 30 quid FreeView box than go back to analaog. And that IS what the government wants.



FreeView has good reception for the vast majority of the country - and by the time of the digital switchover it will be as good as the analog coverage.



Please define "favourite". I assume you mean most subscribed, in which case it can't "remain favourite" as it is currently the least subscribed of the three options to receive digital TV.

You're right, the NewCo might being rolling out more cabled areas, but I seriously doubt it. Laying cables is limited these days as it costs more to do than they get back - the reason? Becuase people prefer FreeView or Sky, not cable.



Ah....and the end of the world is nigh too.

Sky have been around for 16 years. There are 25 million homes in the UK, nearly 8 million of which have Sky. I doubt they're going anywhere anytime soon.

[gazzae]

Originally Posted by m419

NTL Family pack and telephone line rental: £19.50

Are you sure about that?

I thought the family pack from NTL was £19.50, with the £10.50 phone rental on top - even if you don't want it.

EDIT: If fact if you look here http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/television it says the family pack is £19.50, but hidden down at the bottom is... *Price excludes £10.50 phone line rental which you must take with your TV Pack

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by m419

BT Line rental: £11.50
SKY Subscription(Lowest pack): £19.50
BT Broadband 512K: £15.00
Total: £46.00

NTL Family pack and telephone line rental: £19.50
NTL Broadband 512K: £14.99
Total: £35.49

I'm afraid a lot of your information is either out of date or incorrect:

BT and ntl both charge £10.50 for line rental. BT charge an extra £1.00 per month is you don't pay via direct debit. ntl INSIST on you paying via direct debit according to their current info on their website.

Sky's lowest pack is £15 per month, not £19.50. The Family Pack on Sky is now £21 per month, against ntl's £19.50. FreeView, of course, remains free.

I can't understand why anyone would take broadband from BT, as they're rather expensive. There are great deals out there for 2mb internet from far better providers. You can expect to pay around the same for a 2mb connection as you would from ntl, with the same restrictions.

NTL's Family Pack DOES NOT include telephone line rental at £19.50 per month. Line rental is an additional £10.50 per month as described per month.

Originally Posted by m419

Teleport: A bright new service coming very soon, hopefully, this would wipe the smile of SKY's face!

"A bright new service" - do you work in marketing by any chance? Teleport is already operational, as is ntl's VOD service. As discussed previously, Sky is currently in the process of buying a telephone and internet provider. They are also looking at buying the rather sophisticated VOD system by acquiring HomeChoice in London. I don't know about "wiping the smile" from Sky's face - if their purchases come off they will have a rather neat system in place that will set them up for the next 15 years (according to industry analisyts).

Don't forget that also BT will be launching their own combined Freeview and VOD box early next year. Contrary to what you are telling us, it looks likely to be highly competetive couple of years for the cable ops.

Originally Posted by m419

BT Anonymous caller rejection: £4 per month
NTL Anonymous Caller rejection: £1.75 per month
Telewest Anonymous caller Reject: £1.50
Wight Cable Anonymous caller reject: £1.00

New BT line installation: £75 to £99.99
NTL: £50 to £74.99
Telewest: £10 to £50 (usually £25)
Wight Cable: £50

BT Together option 3: £29.99 (Including line rental)
Telewest Talk unlimited: £26.50 (Including line rental)
BT Line rental: £11.50
Telewest line rental: £10.50 together with free weekend calls.
Wight Cable standard: No line rental.

I don't see the point of discussing the minutae of every company's single line items. But whilst you've got your calculator out perhaps you should note that BT's Caller Display is free compared to ntl's £1.75. BT's full itemised billing is free compared to ntl's £1.00 per month.

Most people already have a BT line, so reconnection is free. Even so, the installation cost from BT is actually £74.99 is there is no existing line in the house. This is the same as ntl.

The Talk Together Option 3 from BT is £25.50 per month including line rental, not 29.99. NTL's is 50p cheaper, but doesn't include SMS messages like BT.

Originally Posted by m419

SKY Customer services 0870: 8p per minute
Telewest Customer service: Free
NTL Customer service: Free
Wight Cable: Free
BT Customer service: Free (Although a very long queue)

Ah now here you actually make a good point.

I think it's disgraceful that Sky operates an 0870 number for customer services. I would expect this to change once they roll-out their telephone providers, but I won't hold my breath.

You point out that BT has long call queues...well so does ntl. In fact I spent over two hours on the phone being passed along various ntl call queues on Monday.

Conversely I spent two minutes on hold to BT, used their call back service and was called back within 2 minutes. I have noticed that ntl seem to have dropped their callback service. To be honest I am not surprised - they promise a callback within an hour - mine arrived FOUR hours later.

Listen...the bottom line is that each and every company is going to be better at some things than others - ntl's forte is broadband - on the whole (until something goes wrong) their internet connection is pretty good. But their TV system is rubbish and the phone lines are (for an average user) more expensive now than BT's equivalent pay-as-you-go type of package (which the majority of us are on).

I'd say that cable has (and always did have) oodles more potential than BT and Sky and they had a head start of a couple of decades to really take advantage of it. But they didn't. They don't use the network to it full capability, they don't invest in systems or people. They wait to see what others are doing before half-heartedly tagging along (and putting other prices up to pay for it) rather than leading the field.

This is why 30% of the population get digital TV from Sky, 20% of the population from FreeView and 10% from cable companies. Cable's been around since the year dot. FreeView has been around for a couple of years - puts it into perspective doesn't it?

[m419]

I enquired about getting a new line into a property on someone elses behalf and the sales rep told me it's £99.99! !!

BT's customer service and sales are a disgrace. When you are transfered, you are placed in a queue for about 25 minutes and then when you do become connected to an advisor, they pass you onto different departments which includes more queueing!!! And once the call was disconnected half way through queueing. The call back service which holds you in the queue is a complete waste of time, I recieved a call back 1 day later. Telewest answer calls straight away. Although, if you don't dial 150 or 151 from a telewest line you have to dial an 0845-142 number

BT's caller display is only free when you register with BT privacy, You can get all BT calling features for about £4.50 I think. Telewests is about £3.50.

Anonymous caller rejection is £4 per month on BT! £4 per month just to have a recorded message saying 'please call again without witholding your number'.

Oh and BT don't charge for their itemised bills because they never send them out on time and make loads of mistakes on them!

I also noticed that it's mostly customers in particular areas that are affected by NTL customer service. Ever tried contacting them by email?

I must agree with you that not all companies are perfect!

Originally Posted by andygrif

I'm afraid a lot of your information is either out of date or incorrect:

BT and ntl both charge £10.50 for line rental. BT charge an extra £1.00 per month is you don't pay via direct debit. ntl INSIST on you paying via direct debit according to their current info on their website.

Sky's lowest pack is £15 per month, not £19.50. The Family Pack on Sky is now £21 per month, against ntl's £19.50. FreeView, of course, remains free.

I can't understand why anyone would take broadband from BT, as they're rather expensive. There are great deals out there for 2mb internet from far better providers. You can expect to pay around the same for a 2mb connection as you would from ntl, with the same restrictions.

NTL's Family Pack DOES NOT include telephone line rental at £19.50 per month. Line rental is an additional £10.50 per month as described per month.



"A bright new service" - do you work in marketing by any chance? Teleport is already operational, as is ntl's VOD service. As discussed previously, Sky is currently in the process of buying a telephone and internet provider. They are also looking at buying the rather sophisticated VOD system by acquiring HomeChoice in London. I don't know about "wiping the smile" from Sky's face - if their purchases come off they will have a rather neat system in place that will set them up for the next 15 years (according to industry analisyts).

Don't forget that also BT will be launching their own combined Freeview and VOD box early next year. Contrary to what you are telling us, it looks likely to be highly competetive couple of years for the cable ops.



I don't see the point of discussing the minutae of every company's single line items. But whilst you've got your calculator out perhaps you should note that BT's Caller Display is free compared to ntl's £1.75. BT's full itemised billing is free compared to ntl's £1.00 per month.

Most people already have a BT line, so reconnection is free. Even so, the installation cost from BT is actually £74.99 is there is no existing line in the house. This is the same as ntl.

The Talk Together Option 3 from BT is £25.50 per month including line rental, not 29.99. NTL's is 50p cheaper, but doesn't include SMS messages like BT.



Ah now here you actually make a good point.

I think it's disgraceful that Sky operates an 0870 number for customer services. I would expect this to change once they roll-out their telephone providers, but I won't hold my breath.

You point out that BT has long call queues...well so does ntl. In fact I spent over two hours on the phone being passed along various ntl call queues on Monday.

Conversely I spent two minutes on hold to BT, used their call back service and was called back within 2 minutes. I have noticed that ntl seem to have dropped their callback service. To be honest I am not surprised - they promise a callback within an hour - mine arrived FOUR hours later.

Listen...the bottom line is that each and every company is going to be better at some things than others - ntl's forte is broadband - on the whole (until something goes wrong) their internet connection is pretty good. But their TV system is rubbish and the phone lines are (for an average user) more expensive now than BT's equivalent pay-as-you-go type of package (which the majority of us are on).

I'd say that cable has (and always did have) oodles more potential than BT and Sky and they had a head start of a couple of decades to really take advantage of it. But they didn't. They don't use the network to it full capability, they don't invest in systems or people. They wait to see what others are doing before half-heartedly tagging along (and putting other prices up to pay for it) rather than leading the field.

This is why 30% of the population get digital TV from Sky, 20% of the population from FreeView and 10% from cable companies. Cable's been around since the year dot. FreeView has been around for a couple of years - puts it into perspective doesn't it?

[gazzae]

BT's customer service and sales are a disgrace. When you are transfered, you are placed in a queue for about 25 minutes and then when you do become connected to an advisor, they pass you onto different departments which includes more queueing!!! And once the call was disconnected half way through queueing. The call back service which holds you in the queue is a complete waste of time, I recieved a call back 1 day later.

Sounds exactly like NTL. Well apart from the calling you back bit.
__________________

BT's caller display is only free when you register with BT privacy

Yep it is, but BT Privacy is also free.

[m419]

Oh and did I mention, BT Yahoo customer service and the £1 per minute techinical support is in india.

Was based in Northern Ireland, but moved the call centre to india. The remaining employees were transfered to another job meaning that theres more staff to answer your call in Northern Ireland.

NTL stopped it's indian call centres due to the poor customer satisfaction. The call back service was in operation because the indian workers couldn't cope with the large number of calls and didn't have enough lines to transfer calls between the UK and India. The call back service was also introduced because call queueing reached 50 minutes of approximate waiting time.

Telewest doesn't have any indian call centres.

SKY sometimes uses a call centre in india for technical support when the UK offices are closed.

The indian centres are just terrible and companies shouldn't use them!

Originally Posted by gazzae

Sounds exactly like NTL. Well apart from the calling you back bit.